0000001

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 05:56 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
& n% T( e6 [4 H+ `9 F. q) KWhy bank will sell 借據給第三者???, z5 ]1 l7 L% ~  s. D
I was so confused.....

  c, j; @/ d* }
* T! m9 ?. |( _0 A( [+ Z9 w: x+ C) _1 N講到尾都係賺錢$ _. j8 [$ |, c. J: C4 ]9 K
so銀行可以不斷放款
: \/ C- t7 F9 J1 ~+ o; v! J美國的房貸問題散佈到全世界
. I4 j# v! e8 P9 o8 t
) E" o9 ?1 W. Pmortgage loan 7 a+ d9 u8 \) `& {* }4 G
>conduit, y# e7 t$ J* D& A% H  ?5 }
>RMBS(Residential Mortgage Backed Securities)
2 B, K, _, U4 Q1 o. o>arranger
( j: C5 C7 G! |" j6 o* z>CDO(Collateralized Debt Obligation)
  v! T, `; P+ d. y* u6 n2 u7 o最後去到投資者

Kev

i thought it is the reason of rate of return.' g* w1 ]( G1 \
CDs could have different ratings, AAA -> F,
; j% N# I6 `: |- Dmore risky ones would have higher premium (interest rate) as a compensation for an investment.
" S& r$ g+ v5 b: j) H" Umain reason why ppl buy those risky CDs is because the rate of return exceeds their internal rate of return,
% ?0 U" Q# y2 w. Ain other words, the interest rate of that investment > their required interest rate, therefore they invest in those securities." X3 k  j; {3 Q2 `0 ~- R# V
Also, fund managers would include risky assets in their portfolio for different purposes, eg efficiency.2 U6 c0 Y) T  ]: ~
similar to bonds, CDs trading in the secondary market have different value at different times,2 H* D/ U3 X% w9 k% t
normally the value is calculated by adding it's principle and interest. - g$ Z2 ]! r+ M
eg. the value of the mortgage+the interests to be recieved in the future.
: y7 Z, B( ]* h% Kbanks who sell the CDs, could enjoy a few benefits like, the present value of cash and passing the risk of holding a debt to another party.
0 x+ z- \' t+ L; q0 j0 L) q9 k4 E" p
im not quite sure if the multiplier effect does really matter in this case.# V, }4 Q  _- [& A; g  t# s
in stock market, it's the demand and supply pushing the price up/downwards.
* E" r3 m& w2 `  K% \0 D: d# e. F+ }For eg, A bought 10000 shares @10$ ; B sells 20000 shares to C @ $12," n3 ^, y4 }$ p  p% i* b
A's shares would suddenly increase to $120000 from $100000 which does not invlove any $ transaction.
* S6 w2 c5 A, t' J/ OThe capital loss that ppl suffer nowadays, i believe, most of them does not really suffer a real $ lost yet as long as they dont sell their securities.
8 W3 b; A' U5 K/ mbut the value of their assets did really drop significantly.0 f) t- l- t3 {$ e3 n) c

  R. n- D: n  p[ 本帖最後由 Kev 於 2008-10-8 07:26 PM 編輯 ]

Kev

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 04:09 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif' Z" N0 ]& J6 V6 l/ p2 l
Refer to last example,
# L5 l3 k3 _" T% B& S0 Tthat means bank A have no money because we borrow 10 dollars from bank A
. I% R  J* p6 ]2 F% e$ O3 XBecause bank A doesnt have enough cash on hand / U" x4 u$ d# P. s7 M
therefore bank A need to be bankrrupt ??? Am I right ?? ...

2 m7 p0 M4 y- Q9 ?& r
, x8 l% j' E0 O& J9 K- |3 K
' W2 Y% c) D! y6 i1 G* }A->B->C->D->E
% ^& e7 s7 F9 b/ Sso does it mean if E failed to pay D,
7 x6 g$ L& J4 E0 {/ Q+ Fall the B,C,D,E have to go bankrupt?
0 H6 M% l. i9 h1 S
7 G! w8 \) i" p) X- i) x+ e' ~3 s
# W& t5 t0 h- v# u5 sthe multiplier just tell how much money created in a whole economy, & T& f1 ~% r! m- Z! y' Z
in this case it doesnt really matter how much money is created,
( o, A4 B  P8 v" r0 V) k7 w& xit's the problem of the debt itself.
) ]) j4 m) b. }7 U# `$ n- zthe debt(securities) is bad, faulty, that harmed the whole system.

benny1219

原帖由 kerr12ca 於 2008-10-8 02:44 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
, R! D$ M5 X/ j' V5 E小弟一直都唔明...% A# v& q7 r8 o. F) U, M. R2 O
$ [. @( T7 p& S; T( b/ a
全世界都蝕錢，咁邊個賺緊錢呢?
6 d4 s/ c% w2 ~" \5 c+ `# |  l4 P8 }
. q) g& d+ i, v4 o* G; c9 u無可能淨係有人蝕錢無人賺架嘛...
1 a2 R( N) U8 ^9 V) q$ O+ w& l) S3 L
敬請各師兄解答# `' t6 e* Y, r- A  u6 i4 V* v
7 x. l+ i- U. G& ?8 x1 }
Thanks

8 [& B' y4 m# k
那些根本係 紙上財富  ! S  C) a6 l8 \5 k8 W
各式各樣的證券被炒到上天 你一樣唔賣那筆錢永遠都不是真的存在

qulapo

with regards to the current crisis, Chain of fools does a reasonable job of explaining what happened with a nice graphic
* v3 L6 h2 p* X! }7 m' R1 O% l4 s
$ K2 w' s* ^6 H7 Khttp://www.thedeal.com/newsweekly/images/100608_NWleverageFloChrt.gif

fderek

其實個D錢係你可以當係虛擬資產
5 s: t  F) q, Y2 u當經濟好,投資銀行相信會賺錢, 物價既估值相對較高; w; b- A! E+ A0 C
於是投資銀行就去搵銀行抵押借錢投資, 打個比喻1蚊既野借10蚊
8 W/ e+ a+ V  e3 Q0 k個件物價係市場好既時候升, 例如15%先算,變左12蚊啦
/ _: Y1 O: _% H5 Z" d扣番利息當10里, 咁公司都可以賺左11.5-10(1.1)=0.5蚊,
( f4 |% |1 D# G& H7 K計番回報率就已經係50%,所以可以好好賺
+ j5 y" O0 q  T3 c- s9 z前提係銀行之間要互相信任先可以咁樣借法
7 Y# r' U# Z4 D- q& S0 C  m同埋個市場既前境要係好先得
7 e8 E! M1 X, Y- H$ ^但當經濟一差,公司估值趺了,物價不升反趺
, U* i9 l1 ]' h' [/ H% y例如剛才說10蚊的, 趺到得番9蚊,
  k& d4 Y/ i# W- x* t: }- a咁投資銀行一下子就要還11蚊, 一來一回變左虧200%( y6 c" i4 K0 e, Z! }; C
所以你就會覺得D錢好似蒸發哂咁3 s6 F+ K4 k7 F- s9 m' K8 i9 W
+ Q$ [! o+ j( T2 K, o8 {
你都可以當標野咁諗, 個樣野多人可以狂升值,
, C/ l$ E1 j% F5 w6 F! D但當冇人要既時候一蚊都唔值...中間D錢其實真係冇人話賺左~

kuru

唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢,
' [& E8 y- C5 t$ j0 O& a  O5 Z. `% m! ]& e淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
0 m+ `( ?& A6 t, l5 v, ^呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行; x* b2 B5 E. r2 Z7 Y8 @) L
咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊?

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 kuru 於 2008-10-12 05:08 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif; D6 m( g: o. H: y$ z  t
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢,
& r2 k2 G: r, L; ?3 Y: o淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒, 7 w% f7 S! i- J2 L. K
呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行
8 |2 p9 ?3 d1 e* ^- a咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊? ...

2 u/ d/ [6 _0 a( }* @

8 i- s% p7 i; t/ T2 z& w) H正係咁樣
* u( z+ R5 v$ a0 g4 n8 ~* z! i其實, 以個人立場去睇, 美國好多市民都唔怕銀行/財務/投資公司結業; g6 ^6 a5 R) S/ a  D
分分鐘佢地唔使還錢
& ?2 Y1 y- f2 P3 X4 m5 h
7 J0 r, K; s& }3 Y7 x! E* f- R再講, 美國人先洗未來錢應該係世界第一, 唔知點解無錢都可以買咁車買樓,
# @5 H2 T+ U6 O2 p連國家都係問人借, 不停發債券, 印鈔票
$ k  ^  e9 x- W. j" T一個國家好少出口, 而又大量入口 ,反映到佢唔多生產$ U! D+ A+ ?/ S; B% R
編編唔生產又使用物品使用得最多, 美國就係咁既情況

Jk

咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 Jk 於 2008-10-22 02:15 AM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif& d5 j$ d8 a9 z# R  h
咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

/ ^; V% G! X- e, n% T
4 J9 @, l8 z* u! e; Q, D
其實係...- M5 [1 x% i/ O. j! E
因為以前未生產, 先消費3 X8 `0 L6 _$ N9 V7 v( x% }
而家就要多生產, 少消費