snowbal

I tried to chip in what I know...

I guess you do have put some times in to the Bible...

Anyway, when the Chrostoan refers the Bible as the absolute truth, they are generally refer in three area.

1) Historic...
    What the Bible record was totally true.. there was no making up of stories...
       Example:   Moses lead the Jews out form Egypt and subside the water from the sea.
                      Noah's build the ark
                      Biblical Characters, David, Solomon, JPseph and of course Jesus

2) World
    The Bilble descride the world has corrupt into multi-religion even from long long time to now.
       Example: Antheism   ( No god)
                    Pamtheism ( Everything can be god)
                    Polythesim  ( There are more than one god)     
                    Dualism  ( Everything has 2 sides, example, manvs woman, bright vs darkness, etc)
                    Humanism ( Man is the centre of everyhting)
                    Evolution ( Everything is evolved form nothing)


3) Religion
      1) Man was made from the image of God
      2) God gave man the rights to govern the world
      3) God gave man to have a relationship with God ( Animal cannot)
       4) The purpose of man's existence and the plan God has for mankind


These are the absolute truth of the Bible

When we read the BIble, I bet most of us do not know Greek nor Hebrew, sowe can only read the translation. How precise the translation is...  I would say 99.99%

Some of the words are not translatable. and some of them with hidden meaning and can only be understand with a lot of explantation...

But for Christian, every word that has included in the Bible are allowed by GOD. For those that finalized the content of the Bible, they had put lots of time in research, dedication and total devotion to God's word then they came out with this content of the Bible.


NO matter what kind of language you are reading, the truth is, the Bible records how God created man, and how man turned away from God, and God's plan for man and the destination of this world.

Even when God showed up in front of many people, man still choose not to believe in HIM. This has been true in the past, and in the present and will be in the future .

So, for those who want to have an open minded to study the BIBLE and willing to see how true or how wild this BOOK is.... I am sure that person will not be disappointed...  because my own expereince tells me that the Bible is very real and  the BIBLE is a channel God use to talk to us....

Try and you will be amaze ..........................

snowbal

Westsider,

You concerns are very legitimate. I am sure many people has the same questions and many Christians have the same questions in the minds. I did too....  What happpen if there is no GOD, then what I believe all though my life were stupid..... As of today, there are no science or philosphy that can prove or disprove GOD's existence.

Let me tell you what my believe are base on :

1) If the whole world and universe are a sequence of random variables... if you look form the probability point of view, it will be a number like 2to the power of more than 30. A very very very small chance.
It would take even a bigger faith to believe this theory than believe the world was created by GOD.

2) Arguing BIBLE is absolute truth or "99.99 truth" ( I have to clarify that I mean 99.99% truth is the translation) is somewhat waste of time, because if you do not believe the BIBLE is the record that was recording history of man and the relationshiip between GOD and man. Then there is no point of going forward. For myself, the more I read the BIBLE, the more I found out how GOD intervene man's life through out human's history. The Bible did not only say how great of successful when those man follow GOD. Instead, it shows how weak human are, LOOK at Solomon, David, Jacob, most of them were so called great person in the BIBLE.. Look at what they have done in their whole life. The Bible did not hide their short fall. Instead it kept on stating human's shortfall.
If you can read the Bible with an open mind and look at it from a more historic and human sense ( Like reading a novel). You will find it very intersting.




3) I always think, if there is no GOD, then what are we doing on earth, why do we have to do what we ae doing now?  Life is so short? Why don't I enjoy my life while I can? Why do I have to be a god man? WHy do I have to abide all the rules set by human, both moral and legal rules? I should enjoy myself with my maximum ability.
It does not matter you have religious believeor not, but you have to admitt everyone has a moral standard...  Have you wonder why? WHy don't we just do whatever we like? If you see a girl you like on the street, why don't you just have sex with her on the street? Why didn't you just pee on the street when the nature call? WHy did we all feel shame when we did something stupid?
Why did we have conscience and not other living creature?

4) Believe in GOD, like a sounds, it is a believe, believe involve faith, something that cannot be caluclate or proof. However, it does involve experience. I firmly believe if anyone really want to experience GOD, he/she can and will. But man are too busy in other things, making a lving, having a better living, a lot of other things to chase, and not enough time...... And the main reason is, man wants to be their own god, we are all afraid if we let God intervene our life, there will be a lot of things that we can not do......... What happen if we slack off at work, or got drunk... and many many other things....... there will be a lot of rules that will bound us from enjoying our life......

I can tell you this, I felt the same too before...... but more I know theGOD we believe and His plan, the less concern and worries I have.... because  when you really read the BIBLE, GOD said it very clear, HE wants us all to haveJOY , not just after our earthly life, but NOW. BIBLE is not a book of laws, but rather a book of resource to find JOY and resource to live.

how do you know? because of the Bible said so.
why do you believe in the Bible? because God is real.
why do you believe in God? because what the Bible said is true.
why do you believe in the Bible? because God is real.
why do you believe in God? because what the Bible said is true.

What your argument here is not logical......

Do you believe in History of man? Do you believe the persons that write the history were telling the truth? Do you believe the existence of ROman Empire? Greek culture? Chinese? Indian? Were all those people that record their history are telling the truth?

In today's world, sometimes, we can't even believe what we see...... so in whatever way, everything involves a certain degree of faith......

In the BIBLE case, I believe everything that record in there is Truth. 100% truth. then is every word that we read really means literally, somehow, I have some reserve.......

For example,
1) Jesus said, forgive your enemy 70 of 7 times, so in another word, should we start revenge after that...  or is it a way of saying forgive those who mistread you...

2) Jesus always mention fig tree, is the fig tree a very special tree or is it just because fig tree is very common in middle east

3) David said in Psalm, " Hear my prayer, O LOrd; ... Do not hide your face from me... Turn your ear to me..."  DID David really see GOD turn his fac from him and cover HIS ears when David prayed? or is it a way of how David express when he prayed?

There are many many example .....   

Make it short, if you read the Bible with a critical view and not even try to have a objective mind.. than the BIBLE means nothing to yu but just anoother book..... but if you have a open mind and willing to see whether the Word in the BIBLE is powerful or not, then I am sure you wll find amazing result......


ALL the best.............

snowbal

Gretzky,

very nice of a summary,  

not too many people will have the same insight like just what you have stated..  however,
glad to see someone with such an intellegent post

snowbal

Quote:
The subjective interpretation of the Bible led to bad things such as the Crusades and Inquisition. The believers didn't know that they're wrong back then. How do you know that you're right in the present?

Response:
You are exactly right, a lot of people using religion to pursue their own personal interest, that is why in USA and many other western countries state in their constitution religion and political  must be separated

If someone use religion to achieve their personal agenda, then condemn the religion is not right.


Quote:
Religions have heavy influence on the moral and legal standard of our society. Just look at gay marriage in America. And moral standard is directly affected by your up-bringing. Most people believe in what their parents told them.


Response:
SO, you think our moral standard is totally influence by religion. I think it is a little subjective. However, it is true that no matter where you live, in the modern world or in very remote area in Africa. All human will in one way or the other worship a god….  Although sometimes they do not know what they are worshiping. In either way, all human does have a very basic moral standard to govern.


Quote:
WHy don't we just do whatever we like?


Alot of people do, but most religious people don't.

Response:
I do not agree on that, like my example stated in my last quote….

If someone offend you and you will just go and punch the person out??

Will you do something to embrass yourself in front of a lot of people?


Quote:
Why did we have conscience and not other living creature?


Even if conscience exist, how can you conclusively link it to God and not other things?

Response:

Now, I based this from the BIBLE, God ssid HE made man according to HIS image, and gave us a conscience mind just like HIM.
Of course, for you to accept this mean you have to admit the BIBLE is true. It may be a little tough for you.



Quote:

But beliving in Christainity requires a 100% change in your values. They belive that the suffering at the present does not matter. that what really matters is the eternal life. I mean if you don't care about what you cared before, obviously you're gonna be more joyful?

Response:
Christianity does not require 100% change I your values.
Rather,  as a Christian, we can do things that we know it that is right and not doing things that is against our principal with EASE and peace of mind.


Quote:
Psychologically, they baiscally say that "I won't worry about all these because God will take care of it." Of course they're gonna be more happy.

Response:
This is a very shallow view on Christianity. God promised Joy , that means we will find JOY on earth, we will enjoy all the things just as everyone else. But one thing different, As a Christian, we believe God will take care of us. It does not mean Christian will not face suffering, but rather, God will provide a way out, Again, this is a very personal experience. For people that have doubt in God’s power. It will be tough to accept this fact.

Quote:
And most importantly, the belief gives your a better life, no doubt. But how do you know that that it is the truth just because of that? The truth could be a bad thing. The "truth" and the "perfect remedy for life" are mutually exclusive.

Response:
I think what you raise here, is pure for argument sake…ha ha..




Quote:

  Quote:
Do you believe in History of man? Do you believe the persons that write the history were telling the truth? Do you believe the existence of ROman Empire? Greek culture? Chinese? Indian? Were all those people that record their history are telling the truth?


I don't. That's why I don't care about any subjective studies. If you looking at how certain nations are writing their modern history textbooks, you know not to believe any subjective resources.

Response:


I think this is purely for argument sake, if you have doubt on everything, I guess you must be very skeptic on everything….



Quote:
  Quote:
In the BIBLE case, I believe everything that record in there is Truth.


But can you tell me why? I want to know.


Response:

All I can tell you is my own personal experience,

1)        I believe this world is created by someone that is much more intellegent than human
2)        Compare to other religion, Christianity is the only religion that based on history and can be traced back with accuracy
3)        The more I read the Bible, the more I found that the astonishing truth









Quote:

I can take any book and interpret it in alot of ways. The question is: should I?

Why should I figuratively interpret the Bible, and apply such interpretation in a "subjectively determined context"??


Response:

You are very right, you can take any book and right a review with your own subjective  view….  You can do it with the BIBLE too,  DID you try to do that? See whether  you can found some flaw in the BIBLE…… But make sure,  do a through research….

As for me, I have utmost confidence that you will fail, try to proof me wrong….




Best of wish

snowbal

Westsider

I think what you are arguing all alone is how can you trust the BIBLE, Is it worth believing?

It is very interesting that for you and Gretzky both went through some personal experience and then start thinking about the meaning of life.


For Christian, we will view it as a wakening call from God, because for most of us, Christian or not, we are somehow too busy in our life. Study, work, social life, we just do not have time to sit down and think about what or where we are heading and the purpose of living.

I am a little different form you in terms of background wise,  but I too grew up in a Christian church environment. I had the same questions that you have. I tried to ask for an answer, but somehow no one seems to be able to answer my questions. Most of them gave me standard answer. It cannot convince me that what I believe is true. So, going to church or reading Bible, praying became a boring routine for me.

When I finished school, (I did not have PHD..Ha..ha..) I started working, and making quite good money. God became further and further away from me. The Christian “rule” became a burden to me when I am in the secular world. So, I decide to tell God, I kind of need a break, Leave me alone for a while, let me “explore” and “tackle” the fascinating world for a while. I will be back soon.

Well, then I did what most young people do, enjoying life and use my time to work and make the most money as I can. Until one day, something happened to me, it was a big shock for me. I found out what I have been chasing for was not long lasting. What I treasured for was not secure. I have to ask myself, what the heck had I been doing?

It took me years and God’s MIRACLE to make me realize that my focus in my life was all wrong. God woke me up, HE told me that to pursue happiness is not wrong, but no matter how nice a car I am driving, how big the house I am living, or how update I was dressing, there is something deep inside me that is not happy. The emptiness cannot be fufill by material.

I read a book “ A Road less Travelled” Scott Peck. It  helped me to think, do I want to take a road that the majority of people will take, or do I want to take a road that is less traveled? What should I choose to have a happier life? A meaningful life?

I have to say this is my personal subjective experience. But I can tell you honestly and confidently by quoting a verse from the Bible….
“My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you” Job 42:5

I can tell you that GOD really speaks to me, not from the BIBLE, but really speaks to me.
Again it is a very subjective experience. I do not want to argue. I am just telling you my personal experience.



IN summary, I can share what message God had told me.

Do whatever you are doing , do it with all your effort, for those things that you cannot change, live it to HIM. We are not GOD, GOD has a plan for everyone, all we have to do is try our best, and good result will come, not after our death, but results that we can see.

Isn’t it sounds like what you believe, “Fate”….



Alll the best

snowbal

Befroe I signed out,

I would like to add one more thought,

We all want instant result, I guess we all always say time is short, can't afford to waste. SO, we all want everyhting as fast as possible. This is probably the typical North Amercia culture..

Fast food is convience , but is it good to our health...?????

More and more I know the biggest lesson that we all have to learn is patient......

Westsider,   You did not get yur PHD in a snap, right? From High school to undergrad to grad school, how many years, how many hours........ do you think you master what you are major in?

Give God and give yurself sometime, I am sure you will find the right answer.....


All the best

snowbal

We are the most entertained generation in history. Television sets pull in hundreds of channels; professional sports teams and pop music groups takes in (and spend) billions of dollars; millions of people own second and third homes for vacations in America; we get upset if we can’t get the latest computer games for Christmas.

        I believe the frantic search for entertainment is a symptom of something deeper. Some have suggested we are the most bored generation in history – and perhaps they are right. Down inside is an empty place in our hearts – a restlessness, a search for inner peace and tranquility-that will not go away. The irony is, the more we try to satisfy it, the less content we become.
        Only from God through Jesus Christ can fill that empty space n our hearts, and He will as we open our lives to Him. But God’s word also points us to the future- to Heaven, where our restless hearts will be at peace. “ There remains, therefore, a rest for the people of God.”