Gretzky

Sorry folks...but the 3 points are all faulty arguments wor....

1) Where in Genesis says God create heaven and earth in 7 days? (I thought it was six 'days') The Hebrew word 'days' could mean literal 24 hr days or a period of time. Besides, where in the bible that says God created Adam and Eve because he loves them?

2)Secondly,are all life forms created to be equal? Biolgoically? Genetically? and Intellectually? (I am sure some genetic specialists here can answer that for us) For even Darwin's earlier version of evoluton theroy claims not all life forms are equal.  Furthermore, if there is a god and he did create mankind, how can we human beings with limited knowledge (as compare to the general understanding of God, who's beyond man in knowledge), begin to 'think' like God? How can a being pretend to reason like the Being?

3)According to the Genesis account, the punishment did occur to both Adam and Eve. Adam was to work hard and sweat to get the fruits of the land while Eve has to bear tremendous pain in child birth. Even the serpent was punished to be on its stomach. So I don't understand what exactly the arguemnt is about.

Surely there are numerous hypocrites in the church....but such lousy arguemnts above supports nothing in fighting the hypocracy of the church and christians.

And by the way, yanmatthew2006, next time you put something on the site please specify where you get them...unless you are willing to take the responsibilities of the articles. Thanks a bunch.

My 3 cents,
Gretz.

[ Last edited by Gretzky on 2005-6-21 at 11:22 AM ]

Gretzky

Originally posted by slwong3 at 2005-6-23 02:12 AM:

agree...
and the 傳道人 at here are not really 傳道人
they can't explain and answer our questions anyway

How can we affirm there are absolutely no pastors here at EF? Especially with 60000+ members?

Religion is more than just cognitive exercises, it is about experience overtime.....experience is not a one time event...it is the accumulation of encounters in one's journey overtime.

There is so much we do not know in life.....not seeing a polar bear in North Pole during an excursion trip doesn't prove the existence/non-existence of the animal. Reasoning is good and so is experiencing....we can argue from our brief encounters with organized religions and the sacred texts...but how many of us would dig deep and study a religion to seek truth (Let's assume there's truth)  in its original form? By saying that I mean get around the monks/pastors/gurus and go straight to the sacred text in its original language. Even if we attend masses and religious services, how much is interperted truth and how much is bare-bone truth?

If truth is manipulated by us and our likings (like the genie in the bottle who grants us 3 wishes), then truth and religion is just human farbricated ideas and does nothing to the betterment of our ultimate faith. And that's shameful.

Where is the source of the article, yanmatty? I think it is better to have the background of the author/publisher for more fruitful discussions.....

I hope you don't do this to just a)gain attention and b)add points....life is too short to devote for cyber succcess only. :cool:

Gretzky

Originally posted by bengrace50 at 2005-6-24 02:52 AM:
justin_lun兄，

你不答我呀，我好正經問，想知？

Let me rephrase your questions…
1) If God is eternal, in what grounds does God ‘need’ a wife?
2) Does an eternal being have the ability to grow?
3) If a ‘being’ grows, does it mean this being will age and die?

Here we are talking about the deity/humanity of the nature of Jesus Christ. Let me try to answer it. However, there are some pre-suppositions we need to agree upon: If anyone can not take the following two presuppositions for discussion’s sake, then I would advise you to quit reading now. There’s no point of reading with a set of angry eyes and disgruntle soul. Fair enough?
-        We need to affirm there is reliable historical evidence in the New Testament books and the writings of historian Jospehus on the existence of Jesus and his claims to be fully human and fully God. (The authenticity of the two groups of documents is another subject in itself).
-        According to claims of Jesus, the only way he would be able to ‘save’ the sins of all is to die on the cross and be resurrected. That is, according to him, the very purpose he comes on earth.

A) The Developmental Growth of Jesus as a person:
According to the bible, Jesus went through all the normal processes of human development. He was conceived in Mary’s womb by the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18, Luke 1:34-35). Mary did carry him to full term (Matthew 2:6-7). He grew up in Palestine as a normal boy, developing physically, mentally and emotionally (Matthew 2:40-52). Like all of us, he angered (Matthew 4:2), thirsted (John 19:28), was tired (Mark 4:38) and breathed (Luke 23:46) as a human. In fact the shortest verse in the bible describe this human side of Jesus: “Jesus wept” in John 11:35.
Jesus died a human death. Many people witnessed his death, including those who mocked him (Luke 23:48-49; John 19:25-27). His death was also confirmed by professional executioners of Rome. Jesus was buried in accordance with the customs of the time and set in a grave (John 19:38-41). You can get more human than that!

B) The Deity of Jesus as God
I won’t bore you with scripture references here. Basically if you have time to read the first four books of the New Testament bible (there are pictorial ones now), you will find numerous passages that Jesus actually claims to be God. And in that context he was referring to Yahweh God, the God of the Jewish people. This claim to be Yahweh God is also the reason why he was persecuted by the Jewish religious leaders. Even the Roman soldiers mocked him and asked Jesus to ‘come down from the cross if he was really God’ when they nailed him at Golgotha. How do we know Jesus is surely God? To answer this I would have to open up another topic....but let's just say the biggest miracle is the resurrection.

Brief answer to your questions:
1)        The Christian God does not need a wife to bore Jesus. Mary is a virgin when she was approach by the spirit. God did not have sex with Mary. Mary was chosen by God to give birth to Jesus. I would guess God could have chose many ways to do things, but he did chose the way he did.
2)        If Jesus is fully human and fully divine, as described in the scripture, I don’t see any reason that Jesus can’t grow. Oriental methodologies of God often offer a clear line between the divine and earthly. It is hard to use that point to view to look at the Judean-Christian concept of God. (that includes Judaism, Catholicism and mainstream Christianity)
3)        Jesus did die. I don’t think we have any dispute on that.

Let's keep this as discussions and hope we can learn something....
Gretzky


Mr. Yanmatthew, are you going to answer my question? or you are content to be the cut and paste guru?

[ Last edited by Gretzky on 2005-6-24 at 09:41 AM ]

Gretzky

hmm...not sure what you mean by 巨型.

But I do notice we seem to based our conversation on different platforms. You have your oriental one and I have my Ancient Near East one....

Thanks for the reading and reply though....I can really think in Chinese so my case would be very faulty if I was to conduct it in Chinese....my apology.