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標題: [4/21加分題] 討論: 大家點樣睇天份同努力? [打印本頁]
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-21 01:52 PM     標題: [4/21加分題] 討論: 大家點樣睇天份同努力?

好多人會恃住有天份而唔太努力
$ M- f5 {& \- X- h* L6 F又有好多人因為無天份而將勤補拙. J( \- P% x- Z/ A& b; s: A

5 _9 A: |2 ~3 v7 a) J) B大家覺得:
: W& n7 O) X8 A; P  Z1 J只要有天份就唔需要努力?          還是; `" g: |  }; O- Q
只要肯努力就唔需要天份?
& f+ H$ p( E. o; z7 i, i+ U. f) a0 l& w. K9 W' ~/ `) v

1 V6 d$ K5 P& x9 `6 b6 T( k5 a希望大家討論下, 分享下:
  [$ K; G. {- n2 T8 F0 z你覺得邊樣重要?
, f) f7 D- E; _自己屬於靠天份/靠努力既人,
2 T* ]# w0 N! c6 }2 E覺得響邊d事上面要天份, 邊d事上面要努力?4 u$ j/ e3 |' m4 x" q$ }
有無成功/失敗既例子?
7 D! M3 g5 p! t1 e+ z0 F有無試過有天份做一樣野而又努力? 成果如何?1 C- r5 u0 M! q- L( ^7 ~

1 C4 O9 l& l( j2 W* r
: i/ k, i+ E! _  k2 n0 a. V
; G, d0 N6 R! i2 ?) n) A  p0 G! a1 J希望大家俾心機答/ V2 Z, B$ i, Y) l( M% _
我諗會幾有分加# N! ]6 Q8 |6 t$ b: m6 V/ X7 {
同埋有時唔洗下下都為分嫁, 一齊傾下會學到野5 j; F( R+ g+ c7 h' T
" s6 N# A& Q7 @7 u& u, t! Z7 ~& S4 T
; {$ s5 W3 \6 N3 \- R4 M  {
*大家記住唔好吵架呀9 D' {) O2 r" Q$ V4 L

" K. Y. s" J+ h! h6 D[ Last edited by 樂壇渣Fit人 on 2005-4-23 at 01:33 PM ]
作者: sfxc0000    時間: 2005-4-21 02:00 PM

我覺得只要肯努力就唔需要天份好過有天份但唔努力囉~~) S! P" X0 I5 g- j$ J, }
因為有d有天份o既人會恃才傲物~~~- w  U# [: j5 m3 {
浪費左上天俾佢o地o既恩典~~8 N6 r: S6 k( i* [& A3 ?" C% v
但係d努力o既人就要好俾心機先可以追貼d有天份o既人o既 level~~~
9 I! n$ r" x' D9 C  n9 }* y, d0 `對d好努力o既人係好唔公平囉~~8 [* u3 {5 F9 V* C3 h* F. _" A) y
5 _- P- r1 T. u
而我就覺得我係一個有少許天份同少許努力o既人~~' ^5 F: D6 t3 L6 C6 c, G4 t
因為有d事我唔雖用好努力就可以做得比d好努力o既人好 =.=
6 n& n* o) i/ T/ }/ L# x, V以上只係我o既分享
作者: srfqt1    時間: 2005-4-21 02:00 PM

當然係天份重要啦,我覺得天份同努力的重要性差不多7:3 啦
0 d3 M( ^0 D6 w或者我鍾意睇SPORT GAMES啦,你睇O下入面D球星
# d! f/ ^1 ]# w; W( ~* g; k個個都一定係天才橫溢,但是就基本上冇一個係無天份而可以將勤補拙4 }9 B8 n) u# A! X9 K6 ?$ j
就好像讀書咁,叻的人半個鐘就溫晒書,唔叻的人就半日都溫唔晒書6 w  F) @" i5 F0 u* S
冇天份而靠將勤補拙的,最多只係唔差,但肯定冇機會再上一層6 b8 r! g4 N# a- W( y' H
有天份而唔太努力,就肯定已經係唔差先,仲有機會再上一層
作者: sfxc0000    時間: 2005-4-21 02:04 PM

Originally posted by srfqt1 at 2005-4-21 02:00 PM:
3 U" }. u: ~. N- f$ c8 k, e/ r( f- D8 J當然係天份重要啦,我覺得天份同努力的重 ...
2 g3 Q2 Y4 q2 G5 q但係你唔覺得咁會對d努力o既人好唔公平咩???/ f( C% W& g- b2 \  ?6 Y: J& ^, ]6 P7 ^
雖然我都知道肯努力o既人多數都比唔上有天份o既人......
作者: srfqt1    時間: 2005-4-21 02:16 PM

Originally posted by sfxc0000 at 2005-4-21 02:04 PM:
, g3 }6 G" I2 e8 s
) A. Y- I) F1 Q( \) H  d5 b但係你唔覺得咁會對d努力o既人好唔公平咩???& e7 E3 |' P% I* {8 s
雖然我都知道肯努力o既人多數都比唔上有天份o既人......
  w8 L$ o5 ?- I- }
/ I& F+ f/ {+ h& m! {. }呢個世界可以話公平又得,唔公平又得8 T9 |2 h  k- C3 i8 i, I1 s
我覺得做人有時好像玩d rpg game咁' S$ O* Q1 T. R% M9 }
上天係分配咗你的能力大約都係差唔多,唔會一個太高, 一個太低( G/ \+ x- [/ c
只不過a君可能讀書叻,b君就運動叻,c君就eq高" V) `, W  J4 O7 a$ l
可能b君會羨慕a君讀書叻,但是a君又可能羨慕c君eq高, ?, O& e7 j8 v1 Z3 S
其實做人就係咁,可能上天俾咗一野樣你,你係全世界全叻的% D' x) b1 h: h7 a. u, c
不過俾果一野樣,係你成世人都用唔著既,咁你可唔可以怨個天唔公平
4 w6 Y6 }6 o2 X  U1 N1 g6 U4 S5 D% P+ E" V9 S
[ Last edited by srfqt1 on 2005-4-21 at 02:42 PM ]
作者: sfxc0000    時間: 2005-4-21 02:25 PM

Originally posted by srfqt1 at 2005-4-21 02:16 PM:
; i8 Z3 H$ c0 c# q2 R* M3 s$ g0 ?5 ^! Z. v  b
7 O+ T2 Q: g5 q; Q" p
呢個世界可以話公平又得,唔公平又得 ...
8 z, @4 G  q) S; R4 }咁又係~~* P% \5 I/ r' g, W& ~* w
好似我思考會好d, 但背誦又差到貼地 =.=
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-21 02:29 PM

Originally posted by srfqt1 at 2005-4-21 04:00 PM:0 X; m4 D: f& M; S
當然係天份重要啦,我覺得天份同努力的重要性差不多7:3 啦) h8 t' o+ N- {+ l& K; R0 v/ U# {
或者我鍾意睇SPORT GAMES啦,你睇O下入面D球星
& f8 ^4 d' N  P& e個個都一定係天才橫溢,但是就基本上冇一個係無天份而可以將勤補拙
  ]6 T! C7 S& N' n* h4 g8 ?- R就好像讀書咁,叻的人半個鐘就溫晒書,唔叻的人就半日都溫唔晒書
( F8 Y: ?8 U* x/ O3 p冇天份而靠將勤補拙的,最多只係唔差,但肯定冇機會再上一層; c7 r; L$ i+ D0 f) J7 u0 q, L" T8 \  h
有天份而唔太努力,就肯定已經係唔差先,仲有機會再上一層
  y9 s* {! ?' X7 }
( C, @/ \9 T3 E% M1 c
用運動是很好的例子
( J! i4 Z: O+ _; d# M* b4 c因運動的確好著重天份, 但大家其實亦很喜歡工兵型球員, Keane, Gattuso, Makelele, etc.
" d  w% b+ r4 K2 R0 N, V8 K8 U他們沒有太細膩的腳法, 身價腳可與其他星級球員看齊,: j# L5 X' H1 ~  m0 w
同時亦有很多天份型球員從不努力, 肥朗是好例子, 大家因他的天份而愛上他, 亦因他懶而開始討厭他..8 k* Z) J  |; E8 H. Z- r% l# S
4 T( v5 I% T5 Y+ S% a' Q; M$ n
而讀書, 叻的定義太廣, 我相信無人可以科科都叻, 有d科都要努力3 P/ D) x- m" H" s8 B8 |/ z
而且你看那些10A狀元語錄, 多是每天溫上7/8小時書...
" ]9 T. L9 ~* @: K' o; l, Y6 T" U3 A  J( d8 U3 L* }, Z) ~* z
這題目矛盾的地方是:
$ `/ y$ f# G  v( r% r4 V. A4 x- T0 F6 e4 f太多有天份的人自恃天份高而從不努力, 或選擇性地努力
8 ]7 w# G+ v; l) R/ K# Y; d: |他們大多被努力的人趕過了, 是龜兔賽跑的道理
作者: srfqt1    時間: 2005-4-21 02:38 PM

Originally posted by crap at 2005-4-21 02:29 PM:( D' F& O( a; a7 q; g6 {
這題目矛盾的地方是:1 ]2 i) X! L5 A3 |! _
太多有天份的人自恃天份高而從不努力, 或選擇性地努力
1 ^$ m; @' w4 e. X* G5 `他們大多被努力的人趕過了, 是龜兔賽跑的道理
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2 O, g" N7 I) k- A9 V0 a4 b可能係是龜兔賽跑的道理,但是我好堅持一樣野$ m: Q! q2 {0 {5 Z+ B. ?7 C
冇天份而靠將勤補拙的,肯定冇機會再上一層
2 b5 k" {# f+ `1 {1 j有天份而唔太努力,重有機會再上一層
* j- t  b( Y: ?. g有d無奈,但是已經接受咗呢個事實
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( k  r4 |1 e" e, S0 C5 j[ Last edited by srfqt1 on 2005-4-21 at 02:39 PM ]
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-21 02:45 PM

Originally posted by srfqt1 at 2005-4-21 04:38 PM:. B: A$ x3 M4 m+ H- t

( y  O# \$ H# l4 e
. K) ~1 ^9 L0 ~. P: G可能係是龜兔賽跑的道理,但是我好堅持一樣野
. x6 u5 k2 C  T" H1 k: s冇天份而靠將勤補拙的,肯定冇機會再上一層3 ^% r8 S5 G* I6 m
有天份而唔太努力,重有機會再上一層
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呢點我非常認同,
2 Z/ z* _1 |: x4 y4 W; C但呢點又未必, 於工事上, 聰明人有天份, 自然有野心, 不少上級會選擇一個肯搏命的人, 但當然不少會選有效率的, 所以唔一定係肯定無機會再上一層, 所以唔需要無奈
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[ Last edited by crap on 2005-4-21 at 04:47 PM ]
作者: brightlee    時間: 2005-4-23 01:48 PM

talent, yes, it's really important.) I& w1 g; @& T5 ]1 H
but I believe Hard working is the most important thing, even you are working in our society, you are studying in school or in university.) [. Q, f$ A% p( @, c7 Q
If you are not hard working, even you get the talents for Ronaldano.. do u think you will practise well if u are lazy?! what will be your results?! You can guess it.
0 e" c# x7 S8 u7 A* ~em.. this is my comment, both of them are really really really important
作者: kyleung    時間: 2005-4-23 01:55 PM

聰明重要" `, M4 O+ J/ S, F4 C6 R: N( M' V1 w" ]

; W3 O% h- X( P世界各地個 d 天才兒童; y( \" l4 V, ?7 N/ C+ S8 w- j
睇幾睇可以睇明大學 d 野甚至有大學收佢地
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你估智商較低甚至弱智個 d 人
8 G3 M; ^0 M! e; u一日付出 24 小時去溫
% _& j/ ~5 J/ f/ J# g( \9 U& W可唔可以咁樣呢?
作者: brightlee    時間: 2005-4-23 01:58 PM

Originally posted by kyleung at 2005-4-23 15:55:
' t- L+ T& J+ Q5 M( h, w聰明重要0 a$ B. d# q; x. r5 m

9 I5 a) G6 x6 t- x! l. [& h* k世界各地個 d 天才兒童
. K1 y# _4 ?: a- Z7 v$ q ...
$ I# o- x2 f  p
5 a0 F$ c$ a8 c6 kOh.. I think.. don't just look at the RESULTS only
4 f4 `- n8 i6 R2 y+ Aeveryone has their strengths... to build up our life and society." y# A0 W) y* K$ c4 F
but if we are all lazy.. our life are nothing......
作者: Rika    時間: 2005-4-23 03:52 PM

只要有天份就唔需要努力? No- w/ `/ c& X# \) i9 n" q
只要肯努力就唔需要天份? No
- `# y) R, v$ iIt's because 天份 and 努力 have to put together, only one of them never can be successed
0 @. B9 v" v: ~People have 天份 can have a chance to have greater success in their life if they can 努力; w' A0 d! @7 P' D7 J# k5 P& n
People do not have 天份 can have a little success in their life if they can 努力
- v; D' F7 \' Z& s4 Z3 {" ~# ^People do not 努力 doesn't matter he/she got 天份, they still fail in the life
6 {' G: f+ L5 f4 S* z9 m+ U0 Y" i努力 is the most important factor, 天份 is bonus
作者: brightlee    時間: 2005-4-23 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Rika at 2005-4-23 17:52:
3 M! H7 m6 _! q. \6 l4 S1 N3 {5 |只要有天份就唔需要努力? No% O  p! b6 p3 J; \+ i. `
只要肯 ...
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- r* X- b1 v, d% lI am supporting what you are talking about!!!
作者: srfqt1    時間: 2005-4-23 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Rika at 2005-4-23 03:52 PM:4 R/ g. E) [! Y* @  h  t3 L. o
只要有天份就唔需要努力? No
1 [: g6 i% \" u$ ~( g, b/ o  B只要肯 ...
# t( P4 g! {  l( I

- Q# H' G$ {& \3 g+ k. p5 @當然所有人都明白天份+努力=成功4 D+ O# F6 L! e* g, j; L
所以其實係鼓勵我地要搵一絛o岩自己的路去行9 B8 Y3 M- \( ~& R( H
正所謂勉強冇避幸福,
( }3 L, f. t4 O5 _: ]) C1 U* L你係冇天份的,任你點努力,你都去唔到最高的層次
. {) ~7 }' k; Z係冇運動天份,你點都冇可能一百米跑冠軍) O; x4 K3 M! r
所以人應該要找出自己的天份所在
3 |" M8 z) e* p- Z# c% K! A1 B然後全力向前衝
作者: 左輪仔    時間: 2005-4-23 06:17 PM

做係呢課帕,令我明白呢個道理7 ~# `- M+ \5 p* L8 c6 Q

. |) c, U7 `, H9 b《傷仲永》
* z* _- I8 J  M; i+ h金谿民方仲永，世隸耕。仲永生五年，未嘗識書具，忽啼求之。父異焉，借旁近與之。即書詩四句，并自為其名。其詩以養父母、收族為意，傳一鄉秀才觀之。自是指物作詩立就，其文理皆有可觀者。邑人奇之，稍稍賓客其父，或以錢幣乞之。父利其然也，日扳仲永環謁于邑人，不使學。
; d3 I0 `; W# O) @4 K
8 I+ K7 X5 k5 Q/ h  _予聞之也久。明道中，從先人還家，于舅家見之，十二三矣，令作詩，不能稱前時之聞。$ L- |  c* c9 Y+ f, {" v

% g5 d2 p: g' ~! D; A- \( j; d又七年，還自揚州，復到舅家，問焉，曰：「泯然眾人矣。」 4 _3 g% {& }3 k) E9 e2 C

. L- y+ V/ g" H2 H6 ~王子曰：仲永之通悟，受之天也。其受之人也，賢于材人遠矣！卒之為眾人，則其受於人者不至也。彼其受之天也，如此其賢也；不受之人，且為眾人；今夫不受之天，固眾人，又不受之人，得為眾人而已邪？+ N3 Y0 }- D( g2 @
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書解:
: K4 N, m' R8 t: v1 K$ [全文寫天資聰穎的方仲永，年幼「指物立詩」，可惜他的父親沒讓他好好學習，長大後「泯然眾人」(同平凡人冇分別)，說明成材在於接受教育,努力學習。本文以故事為基礎進行說理：仲永幼時的聰穎及長大之平庸、一事無成，成了強烈的對比，先揚後抑，說理言簡意賅。
作者: aiqidejiao    時間: 2005-4-23 10:17 PM

用番之前有朋友的運動比喻# D: m7 ]/ ]2 w& v# `" q! v
年中會有唔少咩天才球員出現
& `+ i- {/ A9 p# R: L1 m  R) E1 r小弟記得當年愛華頓既卡丹馬達利有神童之稱
- L( |) b! z' ^  T去左邊?
: R6 \2 s% |/ T+ O* \2 d當年聯既沙柏
$ {/ d; X$ v) Q係最佳年輕球員
& x$ p) I6 X! I# H' V' C之後又點呢?
$ G3 p$ I9 ~0 k" D
- X& A) B  @* W3 h5 h! N4 w小弟想講既係
9 @4 h: Q6 L6 h' A1 W/ z有天份但係冇好運! _- C/ e, Y1 x% M
都係死......
! E4 Z; S  n. ~8 k$ X- @$ T" o有陣時唔係天份同努力兩樣野就決定晒成功與否
+ j1 t; H3 @- _
7 o' a1 Q. F) c, `8 o3 t0 c4 f同埋1 L* p; N% Y( M) I1 G, B; h
小弟覺得天份緊要一點
# Q4 S, U, D) f7 f至少5 C; C0 l1 z. I; j7 o0 i
有餘未盡點都比盡力而為好「聽」一點吧9 @; t6 s: n# N4 S( L5 _
而且
2 p5 W5 G3 {" j9 i' `) H( p其實好多時6 M2 l1 a  B8 [
命運(際遇)真係埋沒左好多天才
, J1 Z! g: v3 ^2 M4 h: K5 i9 P小弟覺得有不少我們認為有天才的人2 R7 {$ R! l  W: K, k# @
其實他們真正的能力是他們的努力
作者: brightlee    時間: 2005-4-23 10:19 PM

Originally posted by aiqidejiao at 2005-4-24 00:17:( P5 K7 {+ I7 {8 d$ P/ L1 @
用番之前有朋友的運動比喻1 q1 Z! o1 C8 R  _# e
年中會有唔少 ...
# G( y- V. l- C) i$ z3 I! V( j) s( f  X& w- w. h+ w
well, Lee Sharpe?% k, d8 \7 `  E$ u* N4 a, n
He took drugs..5 a, d/ B' |; }
then you couldn't blame anyone, cos he's suicide his career.....- z8 r3 p& U5 R6 F; b5 _
right?!
作者: srfqt1    時間: 2005-4-23 10:40 PM

Originally posted by brightlee at 2005-4-23 10:19 PM:
6 S9 b# I$ A8 x& v# u6 hwell, Lee Sharpe?
* G/ w  A& O' F3 J: O& v7 H- oHe took drugs..
. x5 X5 M4 d: B" N: \" I) zthen you couldn't blame anyone, cos he's suicide his career....., [: O1 Y; g% B6 v% S
right?!
/ ?3 i, L+ k$ |/ x+ Q- }& p& g+ @
卡丹馬達利都好像又係took drugs+ J! A( H2 J* E6 w) h# O
你舉的例子都幾搞野
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-23 11:08 PM

龜兔賽跑: - 天份與努力的故事
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第一回合: (係人都知…) 阿兔自恃跑得快(有天份), 帶離左阿龜好多之後去玩訓覺, 結果訓醒發現被阿龜慢慢努力趕過左..
: p' h- |8 E/ O解釋: 有天份而不努力, 在現實世界中很容易被非常努力的人趕過 (因現實中天份的差距很少會那麼極端)6 t# W0 `: r: J7 J0 x3 |' [! O

" |' ?9 v2 I# E  S  n第二回合: 阿兔知驚, 無輕敵, 一開始就全力奔向終點, 贏900幾條街
& ~1 f+ s6 T6 W& F2 V; Y6 S3 x解釋: 只要有天份而又努力既話, 無天份既人係無得追+ m9 P# X% M* _' f. L* k6 v. ?

: A9 L! J! Z) B  B) G; o第三回合: 阿龜下戰書, 阿兔同之前回合一樣, 一開始就全力狂衝, 但最後都輸左, 因為跑道要經過一條河…
, ~9 |( J1 G, C4 O解釋: 天生我材必有用, 每人都有天份, 只要搵到自己比人優勝既地方, 加以發揮, 咁就仍然有勝出既機會:cool:
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節錄自我Organisational Behaviour 講師3 Q* Y' q/ V/ B" l' X+ Y
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[ Last edited by crap on 2005-4-24 at 01:20 AM ]
作者: aiqidejiao    時間: 2005-4-24 01:20 AM

Originally posted by srfqt1 at 2005-4-23 10:40 PM:( k+ f$ J3 p* T" `' w

8 f( I$ ?1 U1 ~6 C1 j4 E2 g* P9 O5 J7 a$ |
卡丹馬達利都好像又係took drugs9 Z5 R$ ^* N8 S9 i9 l% p3 W5 ^; c
你舉的例子都幾搞野
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0 P, t& Q* T+ \$ h5 x. o; x你也可以這樣說7 M4 l: L; k' t, c
但這樣有否證到小弟所說﹕6 G! r3 s1 q) u/ b$ G1 N( O
『「際遇」也會影響到一個人的成就』這論題嗎?9 w. |  Q1 n3 P
請指正
作者: JCer    時間: 2005-4-25 03:17 AM

等我講返兩句
& D  f9 d. Q: b! k5 @5 m個人認為7 A% q* ^9 ]: _( u0 c: }6 Y
天份 X 努力 X 幸運 = 結果所以天份和努力都是同等的, 但係天份不可改, 努力是可變) `# w% |3 w2 G5 ]2 q# g
既然天天份不可改, 我們只好默默地努力 (唔好同我講可以改運,我唔信呢D)
- a7 u) D* h8 o) r% t1 k: ~5 Q8 M. @8 B
個人認為藝術係好講天份的, 創作力可以練ma? 方間係有好多話可以訓練創作力既方法, 不過其實無物邊個係得既...+ t8 T) r# k4 H5 }+ W" Z
2 y( T* |& X2 @/ K' j5 ~& r
以前日日好努力踩板呀, 真係日日的... 但係限於無天份, 玩左成年都無咩野睇,就咁收山
+ J/ P- O9 w3 e0 w& J1 q! D5 V; i相反我有個朋友, 好有天份, 短短1,2年已成為了香港的頂級高手(當然他都有努力)( ^- X* s% ^; Q- U5 P6 k1 d  R
- T1 s4 H. U0 v5 ^8 [3 u  `. |
咁就可以証明天份和努力都是同等重要的, T" s: {+ m, E7 l
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[ Last edited by JCer on 2005-4-25 at 03:18 AM ]
作者: jason williams    時間: 2005-4-25 01:10 PM

努力much more important than 天份# X6 {2 L" }; N. [3 R
天份 only limits at a narrow range of things, such as sport, academic, art........but i think none can have it on all things
  ]; e: n# C. `) T7 X2 z( qbut if u 努力, u can do all the above things, even not perfect, but can do it well or not bad
作者: singdotcom    時間: 2005-4-26 12:05 AM

如果你係冇天份而有努力, 你總可以安安穩穩咁生活4 W3 }: e+ K& T) e- v+ w0 M. n/ @
如果你係有天份而冇努力, 你總會有一時風光, 但唔會長久, 真係<一剎那光輝唔代表永恆>
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' i! I  Q5 k+ b: j( _/ N: a我冇乜野心, 我情願要努力. (死前知道自己努力過, 總算死而無恨); p1 T8 {3 i' w& a% Z6 h
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ps. 其實 "努力" 係唔係天份之一種? 真係唔係咁多人可以努力
作者: jason williams    時間: 2005-4-26 12:22 AM

i wanna add a point is that:) _, w( {* `+ Z+ L
most rich and have great achievement guys are also hardworking, they have talent, may not all have i think!
! \: t: H1 g; E3 Wbut those poor and low soical status guys are also not, they have no talent? i dun think all too!& |: d- G! S  T  {! l+ ^

- ?) A- v1 Q3 g4 O0 `) R. J% |8 cmoreover, from my experience, some guys always say and think themselves have inborn talent, but this kind of ppl always haven't, or just less, what u have is not from the mouth, but from yr work, if u are not harding to show yr work, how do u know and how do u let others to prove and know u have this inborn talent? say from yrself is useless!!!
* ?  G% X' p) c; s7 u0 z: Q* ~' {$ ]7 I& L" T% W" }" ^. _
i wanna give an example from what i have seen in my school:7 K; B) O6 \( ^
sometimes in my school, few of students are disable, some may just can move their heads or some are blind due to some acident.
$ ?. L. k9 U2 A1 U: d6 |. {are they inborn to read books and study without reaading buy eyes? are they inborn to study without the help of limbs?
9 S7 Z( L' l4 t2 F6 c+ g4 ~i dun think so! so what they get great achievement on school work?
. J5 C* M* F2 K, S: G* e4 v6 Qhardworking and good heart!!!
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-26 12:31 AM

Originally posted by singdotcom at 2005-4-26 02:05 AM:
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如果你係冇天份而有努力, 你總可以安安穩穩咁生活
/ r- Q; a' b8 v1 y' I+ a如果你係有天份而冇努力, 你總會有一時風光, 但唔會長久, 真係<一剎那光輝唔代表永恆>
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6 i3 y3 z* F- N1 X+ d: M我冇乜野心, 我情願要努力. (死前知道自己努力過, 總算死而無恨)
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ps. 其實 "努力" 係唔係天份之一種? 真係唔係咁多人可以努力
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" g3 [  @, Z9 Q9 @This is a good point bro.
& w" @9 X) U9 s3 {. }+ F0 K4 l我覺得每人都有'努力'既能耐, 而且人人都可以好努力做一樣野, 視乎佢喜好, 有人可以一個月唔溫書, 但不停玩online game努力升級, 所以我覺得努力唔太算係一種天份* L  X- S- T2 h; D; W
你點睇呀?
作者: jason williams    時間: 2005-4-26 12:41 AM

Originally posted by crap at 2005-4-26 12:31 AM:, s5 k$ A+ K& b# x) N/ ^: `7 r2 \! V
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& E' |, `& o( V( y1 E: T; v* P  xThis is a good po ...
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- d& q' S1 \$ B4 a0 uhi, from my opinions, playing online game all the days should not be counting in hardworking to do a thing (just like sleeping or playing all times), R( g$ J' C0 G( d* T9 S8 F2 I
what i think abt hardworking is its work is 艱苦D gei
1 I+ B( @3 ?" p6 z& Xthat means he/she needs to against "give up" thinking and pay a lot of effort and time on it!
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-26 12:48 AM

Originally posted by jason williams at 2005-4-26 02:41 AM:1 m! v+ d5 t% i6 b9 V5 w2 P
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5 B; b. ]: S. {. C# Ehi, from my opini ...
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haha, i got your point there % q" k  [1 F0 c+ Z7 W0 z
my view of hard working is simialar to yours... 0 H- H$ X1 Q' g. V  R3 V
someone works very hard to achieve sthg, & K4 R3 l& J0 e" d
i didn't actually mean someone play hard, but i would say if he did work hard in order to increase his level in the game by giving up sleeping time, dates, etc...." |1 Y! a) j  r( h- n. t
i'd say he's hardworking, does it make sense to you?: e5 H5 _- X1 M/ Z) C

9 g1 B8 Y$ h3 z% wanyway, it's good talking to you White Choc.
作者: jason williams    時間: 2005-4-26 01:00 AM

Originally posted by crap at 2005-4-26 12:48 AM:
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haha, i got your  ...
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yes, i get yr points, and me2, nice to share view and talk with u!!!( P9 I% M8 K6 V% R& V& ~, X% B
let's talk some of my experience b4/ X1 o& D$ m# q- q) |( b; B, {: p6 @& O
i remember this year, i have talked with my fd who studying Psycho, i ask him why i always can't concentrate on my school work now but i really have goal to do it
3 u3 R/ h! h( f; R! x7 Uhe told me that because mine 意識層 is weak, but it can be stengthen
) w" ?5 z8 c" |5 qwhat a funny result i can get is :8 h' D! b% T1 D$ Q' D) _2 b
hardworking can be trained by hardworking, hahhaa^^
, [. C$ o0 ?+ j, f! q; Q* X3 z  {for playing case, none dun like play, because we most like play or sleep as this time is most relax, i always think why i can spend so much time on internet but not on my school work, may be it has no pressure to do it and not so serious and need to "dejest it"( Z$ c+ g* ^1 l
for more detail should be a psycho question that need professinal to answer
7 u* Y6 L; m5 G. A5 g" ^( v1 J" ?5 Wso just like spend a lot of time on lazy, it should not be counted in hardworking even if spend a lot of time on it^^
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nice to chat to let me think more ^^
作者: 阿細    時間: 2005-4-26 06:01 AM

有天份..唔努力都冇用..- C' K1 m, J6 G  H
努力..冇天份...會好辛苦先去到天份o個d人ga成績到..' C/ v6 n/ [4 D6 X) \& [$ s) E, l" G6 u- h) J
有天份又努力.... <--掂晒
作者: singdotcom    時間: 2005-4-26 11:57 AM

Originally posted by crap at 2005-4-26 12:31 AM:
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: }/ \3 q- Z5 D) a' j5 R
This is a good po ...
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多謝哂. 在我的定義中, "努力"係指一個人無論做佢鍾唔鍾意的事, 佢都會全力以赴. 好似<長今>咁, 就算叫佢洗碗, 幫宮女按摩, 佢都全力做好. 呢d就係"努力".
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+ W8 p9 ^& L$ E- V( e相反, 如果一個人有某方面天份, 但佢只係在這方面"努力", 做其他事就求求其其, 甚至有d事佢應該要做, 但係因為佢對呢樣野冇天份而唔去做, 佢都唔算係真正"努力".
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; f4 C! \; W( N例如一個科學家佢對研究有天份同在這方面很努力, 但係佢表達能力極差, 如果佢唔"努力"改善表達能力, 佢都唔可以將d成果同其他人分享.
作者: icefire    時間: 2005-4-26 01:26 PM

我覺天份90%, 努力10%- V' p7 C: X5 q. N
會考就係最好的例子.
: d+ R3 q* V' R$ |3 P就以會考數學緊講, 有d人真係唔洗溫書, 做幾年past paper就攞個A.
作者: 奇    時間: 2005-4-26 09:58 PM

有天份又努力再加運氣就更好
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-26 11:36 PM

Originally posted by jason williams at 2005-4-26 03:00 AM:
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# s' g+ r3 Y/ S+ W8 S8 o4 V" t$ [$ ~0 [# y0 a. S4 \  J# E  n8 n8 a, I- I
yes, i get yr poi ...
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" t. Y5 |9 e( H* x, u! Cum...
! _  U/ Y8 C' S* C, V9 d& c0 n# v+ V( ]psycho is hard~.~
6 q9 L) W9 g, z4 j! f# J8 ]3 Xhaha, anyway, i can see your points, especialy "hard working can be trained by hard working" the idea is fresh to me
9 R" ]$ E) M7 d" li'll try to think about it more deeply later on# R; _- w$ Y& }. _7 U, D! Y- `. x

9 n7 b4 `8 M, y  P% ^8 T3 a6 wgood to chat with u, more of this kind of topics will come, see you there~
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-26 11:44 PM

Originally posted by singdotcom at 2005-4-26 01:57 PM:, u, j& X! z" V+ c9 G+ t6 r1 u

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0 c! f; s9 k  ]多謝哂. 在我的定義中, &quo ...
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hahhaa, 不用客氣
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" s( R/ I- ~, `2 s% v/ u  y3 {, B% e我明白你的觀點, 在小弟的定義中, 如果一個人平時不努力, 但遇到喜歡做的事會努力做, 那也算是努力了 0 @( w% x" L/ O# g" r
以追女仔為例, 一個平日多懶的人, 也會出力追女孩子吧, 那也算是努力呀* [. n& P& I0 L0 K( Y/ R
1 T. `6 A! I& O5 ]$ e
哈哈, 有少少離題了, 不過最重要大家傾得開心
作者: singdotcom    時間: 2005-4-26 11:53 PM

Originally posted by crap at 2005-4-26 11:44 PM:
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hahhaa, 不用客氣
% G- B5 ^" v  Z0 D. [1 R# [$ |- Y8 P3 {
8 Y" a) W( H: _, e4 F, M6 X& [. E我 ...
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4 R) ^. z' n3 A哈哈, 做左咁多年人, 我一直都冇咩用腦做人. 你出呢d topic, 正好比我"努力"訓練吓d思考能力, 組織能力同表達能力.% u' ]: f* i) o# Z  {; _
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哈哈, 我都有少少離題了.
作者: jason williams    時間: 2005-4-26 11:54 PM

Originally posted by crap at 2005-4-26 11:36 PM:& e8 _$ p! C8 l& E+ }1 P' z

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um...
; L2 G6 I5 u1 G. Zpsycho is h ...
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) V+ ~# p* V( ?- V" |, k% ?8 ohaha.......ho ar, nice to chat with u2, especially this kind of topic
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-27 12:34 AM

Originally posted by singdotcom at 2005-4-27 01:53 AM:. J2 ^* ~7 r4 X/ m& z

8 F2 A. p5 I, S/ i: U/ e哈哈, 做左咁多年人, 我一直都冇咩用腦做人. 你出呢d topic, 正好比我"努力"訓練吓d思考能力, 組織能力同表達能力.
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( V) L7 f, s! K6 B( ]哈哈, 我都有少少離題了
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' U6 ^8 U8 S: Q; L哈哈, 你努力時可能會發現了自己的天份呢
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$ ~+ _: u  h1 R1 z同類既topic會盡量日日都出, 希望大家可以一齊用下腦袋啦( ^+ U( I% `3 Y' L/ {, x

! V0 s/ X7 N: R) y; Y你有無試下答大義滅親果條呀, 都幾好玩嫁   <----- 哈哈, 剛發現你答了, 多謝支持* ~6 l" T' [8 B
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[ Last edited by crap on 2005-4-27 at 02:39 AM ]
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-27 12:38 AM

Originally posted by jason williams at 2005-4-27 01:54 AM:
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  @" x9 l* Q6 Uhaha.......ho ar, nice to chat with u2, especially this kind of topic
4 v7 n; Q5 _% F. W$ |1 D1 w! q
8 V, \' D6 ~! n2 r0 @" qhaha, me 2, similar type of brain teasing topics will be made everyday (ideally)
5 r/ l  O+ H" hpls enjoy
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- j) t7 t2 F, t5 _. Fagain, have u tried the 大義滅親 one? that's quite funny IMO
6 O" J4 e. c  R, h8 sGive it a go if u have time
作者: jason williams    時間: 2005-4-27 04:25 PM

haha, leave jor some comment about it la* Q/ O1 ?! E/ V3 i6 E8 f
besides, crap! interest to ask u
, Z6 H, f  c5 [6 kwhich faculty u are studying, u seems interest in thinking and doing research on social, psycho and philiosophy!
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-27 05:15 PM

Originally posted by jason williams at 2005-4-27 06:25 PM:
  m/ C& o: \3 v2 E. M6 K, ~haha, leave jor some comment about it la3 K& M3 G9 Q7 g2 Y. i+ m9 [  w
besides, crap! interest to ask u, p! b7 x9 O  \5 B1 p
which faculty u are studying, u seems interest in thinking and doing research on social, psycho and philiosophy!
$ b# {4 T& ]; l) C

4 @& L* y9 d$ L6 Khahahaa, i'm not really interesting in doing those research, but those topics seems more suitable for discussions and debates  v# ^/ L( L- \; E& f' C6 `
i'm in fact doing a marketing degree^^"5 Y% t( G: F4 V! O6 Y- s5 L" k8 C
hhahhaaa, very 9唔答8, isn't it
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how about you?  k: W& h3 b/ ?9 A
where're u studying? major in which subject ar?
作者: jason williams    時間: 2005-4-27 05:17 PM

Originally posted by crap at 2005-4-27 05:15 PM:8 P3 v; G+ V$ |1 j, t8 {9 ]1 i

7 X  ^% R, O5 p% K% X( k& e0 g! e
hahahaa, i'm not  ...
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haha, i am studying in Physics, and also 9 ng da 8
作者: crap    時間: 2005-4-27 05:50 PM

Originally posted by jason williams at 2005-4-27 07:17 PM:8 n- |6 J. p- P# W
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haha, i am studying in Physics, and also 9 ng da 8
6 T0 @  p: l% ^( D9 a; t5 A7 {& m3 n0 I- Q: T! r' Y9 X
hahahhaaa, seems you are more 9 ng dap 8 than me ar2 g& |+ I/ U( D6 B+ v2 o

/ K4 G0 J5 V% iactuaclly if u could think of some good topics, u can post them up ga wor
作者: yuzhiliang111    時間: 2005-4-27 05:56 PM

天份是與生俱來的，不需要任何努力在某方面就會比別人出衆很多因此得到人們的羡慕！任何人有了某一項天份都是上天對你的恩賜，要好好利用使它能盡情地發揮！要知道人的一身會接觸許許多多不同的人和事，如果有天份不去好好利用它的話時間一長天份也就被埋沒了。現實中有許多有天份的人因爲後天的不努力，還不如平凡而努力的人。個人認爲如果在後天把努力花在天份上，那麽就會得到事半功倍的效果了。努力是後天所需的態度，但是要追上有天份的人光靠努力是不夠的還需要有一點點的運氣。所以說有天份要珍惜，沒有天份也不要緊只要努力也會有成就如果再加上運氣的話就更加好了。+ C# Z$ b$ x! A( o
    原來我的記性很好，幾乎有過目不忘的能力！但是因爲沒有好好利用所以現在和平常人沒什麽兩樣了。但是我也不難過，因爲在這個世界上還是平凡的人多一點！
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( Q9 X% a3 L7 d' S[ Last edited by yuzhiliang111 on 2005-4-27 at 06:03 PM ]
作者: 老鬼X    時間: 2005-5-6 07:47 PM

我覺得係講有無興趣有就容易o的學



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