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標題: 對插水的意見 [打印本頁]

作者: cfccfcc 時間: 2008-9-30 12:41 AM 標題: 對插水的意見

今週的英超
有幾球插水12碼錯判, 尤其是c7的那球
唔知大家僧唔僧插水呢?

我自己就覺得,插水無錯, 最重要係看球証點判,對與錯的在於他主觀的決定
插水就好似爭角球, 界外球一樣, 個個都亂舉手話係自己波............最後咪又係睇球証判

可能有人會話,插水唔道德, 但畢竟係比賽的一部份, 縱然我唔會鼓勵插水, 但我就覺得罰牌就嚴左少少
有時球員跣親都會比人罰,又確係無辜

作者: Shaqleung 時間: 2008-9-30 12:59 AM

插水係球賽一部份,好多人會將佢形容為藝術,認為識插水插得叻都係幫球隊既一部份,不過偷呃既野其實都無咩道德.角球界外球果D有時又真係鬥舉下手睇下有冇機,但係未必直接影響球賽.但係插水,同常都係講係十二碼或者危險既罰球.

C朗插水果球,其實應該咁講.SAMUEL係剷到波先,再有CONTACT令C朗跌,至於C朗俾D咩反應我就唔記得啦.但係佢本人就經常少少碰撞就FING哂手投訴,呢樣就真係好唔要得.

作者: -仔仔仔- 時間: 2008-9-30 01:39 AM

原帖由 cfccfcc 於 2008-9-30 12:41 AM 發表
今週的英超
有幾球插水12碼錯判, 尤其是c7的那球
唔知大家僧唔僧插水呢?

我自己就覺得,插水無錯, 最重要係看球証點判,對與錯的在於他主觀的決定
插水就好似爭角球, 界外球一樣, 個個都亂舉手話係自己波............ ...

個陣c7無乜反應
佢只係訓左係地
之後就判左12碼

作者: cfccfcc 時間: 2008-9-30 08:18 AM

Wigan嗰球仲離譜

作者: T14H 時間: 2008-9-30 11:30 AM

插水無錯ge話最咩要吹罰,做咩要比黃牌
插水無錯...真係虧你講得出

作者: 皇馬_王子 時間: 2008-9-30 11:37 AM

個人覺得插水屬於一種欺騙o既技倆
都幾不君子下 , 有違體育精神
認為自己技不如人而搞呢d小動作
更加係勝之不武

作者: brightlee 時間: 2008-9-30 12:54 PM

Oh my goodness....are you asking any opinion about diving to a professional referee?!

Diving = Attacking players try to cheat referee to make crucial decision. That’s enough for booking as referee will book him for "dissent action"

There would be similar situation when a player got blocked, and fall down, he thinks he got foul and ask referee to give a yellow to opponent .. this player is trying to cheat referee to make crucial decision. Referee MUST give a yellow card for that player.

Maybe you never know "Laws of the game"
In professional game, no player allows to say, "me" or "number xx", players can only called they first name/surname.. otherwise that’s cheating to opponents, result is simple, yellow card for dissent word.

作者: Foxcom 時間: 2008-9-30 01:44 PM

原帖由 cfccfcc 於 2008-9-30 12:41 AM 發表
今週的英超
有幾球插水12碼錯判, 尤其是c7的那球
唔知大家僧唔僧插水呢?

我自己就覺得,插水無錯, 最重要係看球証點判,對與錯的在於他主觀的決定
插水就好似爭角球, 界外球一樣, 個個都亂舉手話係自己波............ ...

很難認同插水無錯這個論調, 因插水本身就是欺騙球賽參予者的不君子行為, 而且更很有可能影響球賽的結果, 若不判罰咁個個都走去博一博, 横掂衰咗都冇事, 只會衍生大量的誤判, 扭曲足球比賽的意義

再者用球証主觀判決來support更不合理, 問題在於插水本質有沒有錯, 若真的有錯比喻為打家劫舍, 唔通法庭誤判咗冇罪就等於打家劫舍是無錯嗎?

作者: Foxcom 時間: 2008-9-30 01:48 PM

原帖由 cfccfcc 於 2008-9-30 12:41 AM 發表
今週的英超
有幾球插水12碼錯判, 尤其是c7的那球
唔知大家僧唔僧插水呢?

我自己就覺得,插水無錯, 最重要係看球証點判,對與錯的在於他主觀的決定
插水就好似爭角球, 界外球一樣, 個個都亂舉手話係自己波............ ...

很難認同插水無錯這個論調, 因這確是欺騙所有參予者的不君子行為, 最重要就是這是很可能影響球賽結果, 若不判罰就個個都博一博, 橫掂都冇損失, 扭曲比賽的意義

用球証主觀決定來support更沒道理, 問題只在于插水本質上是否有錯, 若真的有錯就比喻若打劫殺人, 唔通法庭誤判無罪咁就可以當打劫殺人無錯?

作者: cfccfcc 時間: 2008-10-1 01:55 AM

原帖由 brightlee 於 2008-9-30 12:54 PM 發表
Oh my goodness....are you asking any opinion about diving to a professional referee?!

Diving = Attacking players try to cheat referee to make crucial decision. That’s enough for booking as referee w ...

Come on, I KNEW that players cannot call me or whatsoever in the game

what i wanted to stress is that............Diving ----> to win a penalty or a free kick
Obviously i knew that ref will give yellow to diving players~ but why do people still DIVE??????

Did u actually think of it????

The main thing is that, if all DIVING is spotted out, players will never dive.....but the fact that football game is partially determined by referee, so there is a situation where the ref is giving the wrong judgement tells us that.......football game is kind of different~

我想講, 如果插水係咁不道德, 咁不君子, 點解仲有球員去插呢?????
我都知係唔應該咁做.......大家好大路咁去諗亦好正常

我响呢道出post,係想比少少新角度去睇件事

球証-------係好多時會判錯, 球員就係捉住呢點先去插...........

或者咁講.....如果有instant video review,就無問題啦......邊個仲會插?

大家不停咁話不君子不道德,有黃牌比
無錯, 係响球証睇到的情況下

球員插得, 就一定要承受一個風險,就係比球証睇到比牌
the is the rule of the game~ but the rule also says......if the ref gives a PEN......its a PEN
佢地插水, 係冒著拿黃牌的危險去做...........但若果真係搏到佢地就贏啦

呢個規則佢地都知

最終..........插水與否, 都係歸咎於球証的判決....所以........插水我真係覺得無錯, 但亦唔arm

作者: cfccfcc 時間: 2008-10-1 02:02 AM

Oh my goodness....are you asking any opinion about diving to a professional referee?!
Yes of coz~

Diving = Attacking players try to cheat referee to make crucial decision. That’s enough for booking as referee will book him for "dissent action"
Of couse i know they will be rewarded yellow if spotted, but how if the ref cannot spot it out and gave a penalty? thats enough for creating a goal......you can see what C7 do for so much penalty in the past few years

There would be similar situation when a player got blocked, and fall down, he thinks he got foul and ask referee to give a yellow to opponent .. this player is trying to cheat referee to make crucial decision. Referee MUST give a yellow card for that player.
It wouldn't be similar as over-reacted players will be allowed a yellow, but there won;t be any different outcome. But diving players maybe awarded a penalty if they are lucky enough.

Maybe you never know "Laws of the game"
In professional game, no player allows to say, "me" or "number xx", players can only called they first name/surname.. otherwise that’s cheating to opponents, result is simple, yellow card for dissent word
I think in your life....its very simple.....black and white, there must be GREY in the real world...... referee is human, they will make wrong decisions, so..........cheating.......may sometimes got what they wasn't actually deserved, so its not realted to what u say a player called" ME" or "有"~!

I am really angry with this reply........as you totally disrespected me and made me feel sick
When players kept doing the same thing that the whole world say "NO" , there should be some reason behind.....so please try to understand the actual main problem before blasting on others

作者: brightlee 時間: 2008-10-1 05:59 AM

I respect what you said
+12

I will answer your post later on, I am in office now, not convince to answer anything

作者: sonyguy 時間: 2008-10-1 07:16 AM

插水就肯定唔岩, 但插水既定義其實唔在於防守球員有無踼到進攻球員,..反而係進攻球員跌果時既反應...
比賽時既速度其實真係好快...有時可能輕微碰撞都足以拎到進攻球員跌...又或者...即使真係無任何接觸...但因為要避防守球員既爛截都會跌...所以最重要進攻球員既態度...有d 真係過份誇張...呢d行為係最唔要得...

作者: cfccfcc 時間: 2008-10-1 12:37 PM

See this?
even not in the penalty area...........the player dived and lampard got fouled.......~

作者: slwong3 時間: 2008-10-1 02:19 PM

I don't want to compare with any players.
However, recently I just saw another post about Maradona.

If you guys have watched those replays or video for Maradona, you can tell that a good player does not need to do such cheating stuffs for diving. Have you guys ever seen Maradona dived? He fell down only because the defenders brought him down.

I agree with what Sonyguy said in the above. It all depends on the attacking player. If his attitude is good, he wouldn't do such diving to corrupt the game at all.

作者: hwkeung 時間: 2008-10-1 02:34 PM

武功都有暗器, 足球為何不可有插水?

作者: slwong3 時間: 2008-10-1 02:43 PM

原帖由 hwkeung 於 2008-10-1 02:34 PM 發表
武功都有暗器, 足球為何不可有插水?

very interesting comment

We have to admit that in the real world, there are people who would use whatever cheap ways they can do to accomplish what they desire.

Yes, a player can keep on diving but this is not something that should be tolerate on the soccer field.

作者: SoccerJJ 時間: 2008-10-1 02:49 PM

i think actually if the defensive player has physical contact with the offensive player and causes the offensive player to lose balance or lose the ball or just minimise the chance of scoring they should fall and try to get a penalty or free kick. But i really hate when there wasn't even physical contact and the offensice player falls, reacts very big and trys to get a penalty!

作者: cfccfcc 時間: 2008-10-1 07:26 PM

原帖由 slwong3 於 2008-10-1 02:19 PM 發表
I don't want to compare with any players.
However, recently I just saw another post about Maradona.

If you guys have watched those replays or video for Maradona, you can tell that a good player does ...

Maradona.......a legend....you should remember that he hasn;t dived.......but he actually used hand to put the ball into the net......so thats kind of cheating/cheap thing? right??

作者: hwkeung 時間: 2008-10-2 04:06 PM

正所謂『唔理黑貓定白貓, 捉到老鼠就係好貓』,
Maradona好波人所共知, 但都有上帝之手,
在兵法<<五輪之書>>入面有講過, 每個武士每場對決都要視死如歸,
唔係你死就係我亡, 勝負大於一切, 用在所有場合都一樣.

道德只用在能夠雙贏的情況下才健康, 唔係世界大亂,
但在兩個只能活一個的情況下談道德只係傻仔.

你俾人打到半死緊係踢jj插眼鎖喉嚨乜都出晒黎啦, 仲同人講道德啊?

作者: brightlee 時間: 2008-10-2 08:16 PM

原帖由 cfccfcc 於 2008-10-1 02:37 PM 發表

See this?
even not in the penalty area...........the player dived and lampard got fouled.......~

You are right
Referee failed to make this call

Remember this:
I say this to all my friend,
When you watch Premier League, if you see someone is called: "Mike Riley", is the referee in that game. Bad Luck!

He's the worst referee in Premier League in this generation.

The most craziest thing is, he represented England to be referee in Euro 2000. I got a bad headache when I watch his game every time.

This guy is always getting failed to do his job.

Rob Styles, the one who wrongly called the penalty for Man Utd (vs Bolton) last week and a year before for Chelsea (vs Liverpool), is far better than Mike Riley

作者: cfccfcc 時間: 2008-10-3 12:50 AM

原帖由 hwkeung 於 2008-10-2 04:06 PM 發表
正所謂『唔理黑貓定白貓, 捉到老鼠就係好貓』,
Maradona好波人所共知, 但都有上帝之手,
在兵法入面有講過, 每個武士每場對決都要視死如歸,
唔係你死就係我亡, 勝負大於一切, 用在所有場合都一樣.

道德只用在能夠雙 ...

good~
i like your view point
新角度

作者: 呀俊 時間: 2008-10-3 04:55 PM

我覺得有時d波球員會跌底好正常
但係有d球員就專登咁做就唔係太好
佢地呢d插水既動作足以影響成場波既賽果例如任何一個十二碼
所以插水俾黃牌都唔過份姐
係有料既想贏駛乜靠呢d超技術?

作者: cfccfcc 時間: 2008-10-3 09:27 PM

原帖由呀俊於 2008-10-3 04:55 PM 發表
我覺得有時d波球員會跌底好正常
但係有d球員就專登咁做就唔係太好
佢地呢d插水既動作足以影響成場波既賽果例如任何一個十二碼
所以插水俾黃牌都唔過份姐
係有料既想贏駛乜靠呢d超技術? ...

有時技不如人,用呢d招可以贏到, 有乜所謂?
唔係點樣爆冷?

作者: 呀俊 時間: 2008-10-4 12:46 AM

原帖由 cfccfcc 於 2008-10-3 09:27 PM 發表

有時技不如人,用呢d招可以贏到, 有乜所謂?
唔係點樣爆冷?

你咁講,我都會讚成既
連奧運都係咁啦外國唔想中國贏就專登訂鬼咁多規則就好似呢個兵乓波咁
岩既為求目的不擇手段
http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=2P7RBRhFcSU
Joga Bonito

[ 本帖最後由呀俊於 2008-10-4 12:55 AM 編輯 ]

作者: phelps 時間: 2008-10-5 10:40 PM

插水岩唔岩,我唔講
不過有時有冇諗過,....
插水有D情況下,
係避開對手既侵犯,
係保護自己,
當避過對手後,
自然不會有接觸,
而趺下,便會比人話插水
不過若果唔跳開,等等,
可能係會比人踢倒.....
以上只係我覺得有時未必係真的有心插水

作者: infamouscaptain 時間: 2008-10-6 01:13 PM

一般人睇「插水」當然覺得唔岩. 就好似見到個波本來唔入但係判左入一樣...
因為大家當了看足球是看網球籃球排球一樣.

但, 其實足球就是這麼一回事.
有人為錯誤的足球才是真正的足球. These things happen in football.
這亦是足球與其他運動的最大不同之處. 這亦是足球令人那麼著迷的地方.

正所謂「勝者為王」. 足球本身的意義就好像是打仗一樣.
我同意之前樓上hwkeung 說的Maradona 例子.
插水? 小兒科喇~

大家還記唔記得Zidane 的鐵頭功??
馬特拉斯做了不君子行為是做對了麼?
絕不.
但是結果是Italy 勝了. 馬特拉斯勝了.

足球就是爾愚我詐的一回事.
Rivaldo 中槍, 古烈治的口水, Danny Mills 用波醒人扮唔小心, 仲有無數人扮中頭搥, 扮被踢傷....
幾精彩呀~

說回插水, 很簡單.
當然絕不鼓勵. 但不能完全沒有呀~

最厲害的球員為何厲害?
因為佢做到一d 其他人做唔到既野!!!!

作者: plkjoejoe 時間: 2008-10-8 08:58 PM

睇完樓主講0既野,都明白佢0既觀點,但始終覺得有d怪

我將樓主所講0既野打個比喻:
呢個世界係有法律,但至於犯左法0既人會吾被捕甚至定罪就在於執法者本身
加上佢地選擇左犯法就已經承受左一定風險,
所以知法犯法本身係冇錯0既,
佢地博到咪係贏家囉,
責任只在於執法者

所以我冇法認同樓主0既觀點

或者唔好只將焦點放向犯法0既人度
點解大家唔關注下受害人0既感受?
如果有人俾人強姦,打劫之後警察冇做到野0既時候,
你會唔會同受害人講:this is the life, 犯人博贏左啦, 其實都唔關犯人事, 冇計啦鬼叫d差人冇用咩.....
點解有人可以唔同情下受害人,反而覺得插水0既人係可以被接受?

另外,唔通當知道可能唔會俾人捉到,大家都有樣學樣走去犯法
我知道呢d係part of the game, 但大家想見到第時0既足球係人插我插0既比賽咩?
我唔想第時0既足球水平係會提升到呢一個層面.......

我唔相信他朝一日c朗被人反插水而吹罰12碼佢都可以無動於衷,欣然接受.....
假若自己都覺得有問題,唔認同,唔接受0既時候,點解重可以堂而皇之咁用黎攻擊對手呢?

至於我自己就認為插水有兩種
第一種就係好似上面有個 post條片咁
對手根本冇係犯規.....呢一種係絕對唔要得
而第二種我覺得唔應該叫插水而係誇張
即係有時對手會拉一拉你,頂一頂你,kick一kick你
唔係好礙眼0既犯規而又未至於球員跌低繼而令球証吹罰(especially 0向英超)
有d球員會跌低令球証可以吹罰
我反而覺得呢一種係可以接受
因為對手的而且確係犯左規,而攻方0向進攻上又受到影響
跌低係一個singal話俾球証聽有人犯規
合情合理,唔係咩可恥0既行為

總之,插水係唔可以接受,呢一種風氣係要杜絕!

[ 本帖最後由 plkjoejoe 於 2008-10-8 09:09 PM 編輯 ]

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