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作者: Xtravagant    時間: 2009-9-20 08:52 PM     標題: Manchester Derby [Live Chat]

Anyone watching ???

Looks like the best PL game so far this season...

Tevez good ball
作者: negator    時間: 2009-9-20 10:43 PM

場波好戲劇~
作者: eric8899    時間: 2009-9-20 10:50 PM

全場高空轟炸, 補時竟然俾奧雲搞掂....
作者: Xtravagant    時間: 2009-9-20 10:55 PM

原帖由 eric8899 於 2009-9-20 10:50 PM 發表
全場高空轟炸, 補時竟然俾奧雲搞掂....
Any saw Hughe's face at the end?

Man U was the better side tactically...

And Gigg's perfomance was just AMAZING!!
作者: goodtime    時間: 2009-9-20 11:01 PM

補時補咁長.....費sir真係有面子...
作者: eric8899    時間: 2009-9-20 11:01 PM

唔知一陣間"車仔"0個場會唔會都咁激呢?!
作者: lywv5    時間: 2009-9-20 11:16 PM

HAIL 49000
作者: steven999    時間: 2009-9-20 11:49 PM

舉4分鐘
補6分鐘
仲要95:30入波
球證 你係得既
作者: arthur8088    時間: 2009-9-21 12:58 AM

原帖由 steven999 於 2009-9-20 11:49 PM 發表
舉4分鐘
補6分鐘
仲要95:30入波
球證 你係得既
Bellamy scored his second goal at 89:55, after their celebration , it's already almost 92:00~~it's reasonable to start the clock again at 92th mins~~~and 92-96 mins, that's 4 mins~~~

please stop the fixed match or bribing the ref stuff~~
作者: arthur8088    時間: 2009-9-21 12:19 PM

原帖由 arthur8088 於 2009-9-21 12:58 AM 發表


Bellamy scored his second goal at 89:55, after their celebration , it's already almost 92:00~~it's reasonable to start the clock again at 92th mins~~~and 92-96 mins, that's 4 mins~~~

please stop th ...
here's a little correction....the match started back at 91:0x second, and there's a substitution at 92th mins, (not sure whether you have to do the 30 secs injury time) i have to leave this to registered ref to explain the rules....

91+4+30sec, it's 95:30~~~Owen's goal: 95'27


btw, Giggs was absolutely stunning in the whole match~~i wonder what did he have for breakfast~!!!??? he just produced one of his best match in his life~~~

[ 本帖最後由 arthur8088 於 2009-9-21 12:24 PM 編輯 ]
作者: amigofans    時間: 2009-9-21 12:42 PM

原帖由 arthur8088 於 2009-9-21 12:19 PM 發表


here's a little correction....the match started back at 91:0x second, and there's a substitution at 92th mins, (not sure whether you have to do the 30 secs injury time) i have to leave this to regis ...
嚴格講89:50幾秒入波, 91:05已經開番波, 再計埋30秒換人, 成場補到96分幾似乎係多左d....

但我絕對唔同意有朋友所謂既 "比面費sir論", 上星期佢契仔紅牌一樣無面比....

就如我講利物浦, 由上季到今季, 有足足10場係落後時對手紅牌然後反勝, 我一直強調利物浦只係好運,
我從來唔覺得有人要比面賓尼迪斯....

其實D領隊, 尤其最出名果幾個, 成日比人趕狗咁趕出場, OR講錯野要罰錢, 我真係見唔到半點香港球迷既 "比面論"....

此論點非常"港式", 甚至比宗教式迷信假波更加無SENSE....
作者: brightlee    時間: 2009-9-21 03:24 PM

原帖由 arthur8088 於 2009-9-21 02:19 PM 發表


here's a little correction....the match started back at 91:0x second, and there's a substitution at 92th mins, (not sure whether you have to do the 30 secs injury time) i have to leave this to regis ...
Thanks for your great job!!!

This time, I could keep some rests, as you help me to explain whole scenario~!!!

I just check out whole situation as I watched the replay online

Carig Bellmary scored in 89.55
The game was restarted in 90.5x
(1 min extra add in time)
then Sub for Man Utd from 92.22 to 92.52 (exactly 30 seconds)
Michael Owen scored a goal in 95.28 (by theory, exactly 2 seconds left for the clock)
Then Man Utd got some celebration and the game restarted

Referee Martin Atkinson was really nice to Man City, he didn't blow his final whistle just kick off. He still gave around 10 second to Man City

Hey, what do you expect for some great referee job like him in this game?!
作者: arthur8088    時間: 2009-9-21 04:21 PM

原帖由 brightlee 於 2009-9-21 03:24 PM 發表


Thanks for your great job!!!

This time, I could keep some rests, as you help me to explain whole scenario~!!!

I just check out whole situation as I watched the replay online

Carig Bellmary scored ...
yeh..that's what everyone's arguing about whether the ref should just blown off at 94th min~~

but i've sort of checked the FA rule, it stated the injury time from 4th ref is just a suggestion, the main ref need not to follow it~~~and the injury time can be adjusted according to particular incidents~~~(just like the match where Petr Cech got knocked out, the match was stopped at 54th min in the first half~~

so Aktinson was right, didnt he?
作者: kakeidevil    時間: 2009-9-21 04:23 PM



作者: arthur8088    時間: 2009-9-21 04:29 PM

原帖由 filter-052fans 於 2009-9-21 12:42 PM 發表


嚴格講89:50幾秒入波, 91:05已經開番波, 再計埋30秒換人, 成場補到96分幾似乎係多左d....

但我絕對唔同意有朋友所謂既 "比面費sir論", 上星期佢契仔紅牌一樣無面比....

就如我講利物浦, 由上季到今季,  ...
the injury time incident is gonna be hot topic for a couple of days~~~~

LOL...i've never heard of 比面論....who said that..!!!?like what you've said, Arsene Wenger and SAF wouldnt always be fined...and they need not to argue with the England FA over the national team selection and playing time in some friendly match~~~
作者: arthur8088    時間: 2009-9-21 04:31 PM

原帖由 kakeidevil 於 2009-9-21 04:23 PM 發表


LOL....i noticed that on Skysports highlight as well~~~SAF was being too friendly to the 4th ref!!!!LOL

and did you watch the Bellamy incident after Owen's goal? no wonder Mark Hughes wanna sign so many forwardss!!!!
it's either they are glassy leg or flamboyant!!! stupid Bellamy!!!!
作者: kakeidevil    時間: 2009-9-21 04:37 PM

原帖由 arthur8088 於 2009-9-21 04:31 PM 發表



LOL....i noticed that on Skysports highlight as well~~~SAF was being too friendly to the 4th ref!!!!LOL

and did you watch the Bellamy incident after Owen's goal? no wonder Mark Hughes wanna sign s ...
死硬派,不予評論
作者: brightlee    時間: 2009-9-21 04:41 PM

原帖由 arthur8088 於 2009-9-21 06:21 PM 發表


yeh..that's what everyone's arguing about whether the ref should just blown off at 94th min~~

but i've sort of checked the FA rule, it stated the injury time from 4th ref is just a suggestion, the  ...
You are absolutely right!

The signal for addin time which is given on the field, which should be add it time BEFORE 90 mins. It is a good example for yesterday game that referee Martin Atkinson did some right job, to give extra time more than which should be given on the board!
作者: brightlee    時間: 2009-9-21 04:49 PM

Yeah, I should say a bit more about add in time

When the forth official show up how many mins will be add-in. There should be MINIMUM time how they will add in in this game
for example, this game, the forth official was showing up 4 mins add-in time. That means, the game will be getting 4 mins to 4 mins 30 seconds if that's no drama in this 4 mins.

So don't be surprised sometimes even the 4th official showed up 4 mins add in time, at the end, the referee doesn't blow his final whistle in 94 mins 30 seconds
作者: arthur8088    時間: 2009-9-21 04:58 PM

原帖由 kakeidevil 於 2009-9-21 04:37 PM 發表


死硬派,不予評論
LOL...i'm not the deep-ocean-living organism!!~~
作者: arthur8088    時間: 2009-9-21 05:13 PM

Bellamy Slapping incident~~


[youtube3]JeryDlVyCG4[/youtube3]

[ 本帖最後由 arthur8088 於 2009-9-21 05:15 PM 編輯 ]
作者: shehboy    時間: 2009-9-21 08:37 PM

原帖由 filter-052fans 於 2009-9-21 12:42 PM 發表


嚴格講89:50幾秒入波, 91:05已經開番波, 再計埋30秒換人, 成場補到96分幾似乎係多左d....

.
你係呢度唯一肯講番句公道說話既曼聯躉.不過唔係補到96分, 而係96分55秒!

如果情況掉轉係曼城入第七球, 呢度啲人講既野一定好唔同!
作者: shehboy    時間: 2009-9-21 08:58 PM

記得亞叔生前講過, 補時階段通常得幾分鐘, 所以除非有好特別既事(例如球員嚴重受傷或有人衝入球場生事), 否則唔應補上補, 唔係球賽只會沒完沒了, 我記得佢係講開加時比賽通常唔會點補時之後講開既.

足球唔同籃球, 唔係下下要噤停. 如果場外執波, 等踢12碼, 等開角球, 吹罰, 俾牌, 排人牆.... 都要補, 一場波120分鐘都唔得.

補時階段內換人, 除非搞得特別耐, 否則唔駛補, 所以啲領隊至咁中意用補時階段換人黎阻時間.

所謂慶祝入球的時間, 更加荒謬, 入球後執番個波去中圈, 然後對方11球員過番自己半場, 再由球證吹開波, 通常係要半分鐘至一分鐘, 呢啲係球賽正常程序, 除非搞得特別耐(例如球證要同旁證商議該入球是否有效), 否則無可能再補時.

曼聯換人用左30秒, 發生响90分鐘之後既話係可以唔補. 重新開波時間係用左一分鐘, 無論係唔係90分鐘以內發生, 都唔需要補.

根本個球證自己都覺得樣衰, 入波後都唔敢即刻吹完場, 仲要整多分幾鐘. 費事俾人話佢曼聯唔入波就死都唔吹, 一入就即吹.

Appreciated your discussion.
+4

[ 本帖最後由 brightlee 於 2009-9-22 04:52 PM 編輯 ]
作者: eqhigh    時間: 2009-9-21 09:18 PM

原帖由 shehboy 於 2009-9-21 08:37 PM 發表


你係呢度唯一肯講番句公道說話既曼聯躉.不過唔係補到96分, 而係96分55秒!

如果情況掉轉係曼城入第七球, 呢度啲人講既野一定好唔同!
唔係話曼迷死忠或者乜野....但點可以用96:55黎講?
96:55係完場時間, 入波係95:27, 關96:55咩事呢?
如果奧雲冇入, 球證係95分30吹完場, 大家就覺得冇問題啦?

拎個完場時間黎講, 我覺得係絕對以偏蓋全既

P.S. 當我普通版友就可以了
作者: brightlee    時間: 2009-9-21 10:02 PM

原帖由 shehboy 於 2009-9-21 10:58 PM 發表
記得亞叔生前講過, 補時階段通常得幾分鐘, 所以除非有好特別既事(例如球員嚴重受傷或有人衝入球場生事), 否則唔應補上補, 唔係球賽只會沒完沒了, 我記得佢係講開加時比賽通常唔會點補時之後講開既.

足球唔同籃球,  ...
Sorry, the Law of the games has been changed ages ago.

Managers normally don't make subsitution during injury time. It is because they couldn't use "time wasting" streagy. It won't work, referee will add every 30 seconds for each subsitution! That's why managers don't do it nowadays.

Referee, Mr Martin Atkinson was doing right for add in time yesterday, as I wrote here. Add in time is competely different than normal time. Referee will count out every "time wasting" moment, i.e. subsitution, goal celebration, etc. Also when he told the 4th official, about how many mins add in time, there should be MINIMUM time the game should be added in theory, so if that's 4mins add in time like that, it could be between 4 mins and 4 mins 30 seconds (except the situation like that yesterday)

I am saying this, is from referee's point of view. If you ask 10 professional referees, they will give you same answer.

[ 本帖最後由 brightlee 於 2009-9-22 12:04 AM 編輯 ]
作者: brightlee    時間: 2009-9-22 10:30 AM

原帖由 shehboy 於 2009-9-21 10:58 PM 發表
記得亞叔生前講過, 補時階段通常得幾分鐘, 所以除非有好特別既事(例如球員嚴重受傷或有人衝入球場生事), 否則唔應補上補, 唔係球賽只會沒完沒了, 我記得佢係講開加時比賽通常唔會點補時之後講開既.

足球唔同籃球,  ...
I give you another referee to talk about this incident, that's ex-English referee, Graham Poll


Havingwatched a complete re-run of Sunday's Manchester derby, I have toconclude that Martin Atkinson was absolutely correct and highlycredible in his time-keeping.

Mystery and controversy often surround the amount of additional timeallowed, but this is covered in law seven, 'The duration of a match'.

It is wonderfully ambiguous in listing the reasons why allowance for time lost should be made.

There are five listed: substitutions; assessment of injury to players;removal of injured players from the field of play for treatment;wasting time: and any other cause.

The final point makes it easy to understand the lack of clarity when a law relies on so much subjectivity.

There is no need to add time on whenever the ball goes out of play forthrow-ins, goal kicks or free-kicks, as they are viewed as naturalstoppages.

Referees tend to follow guidelines, which are that for every goal orsubstitution you should allow 30 seconds and then add a minute or twofor injuries and/or time-wasting, if they have occurred.

When there is a lengthy delay for a serious injury, it is often timed and added to the calculated time.

There were three goals and three substitutions in the second half atOld Trafford, which means that a minimum of three minutes had to beadded, plus a minute due to other causes, hence the four minutes whichwere indicated.

Then, in stoppage time, there was another goal and a substitution,meaning that at least one more minute had to be added, with a fanrunning on to the pitch taking up further seconds.

So, well done Martin Atkinson for attention to detail and to Manchester United for playing right to the final whistle.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport ... med-just-right.html
作者: shehboy    時間: 2009-9-22 12:23 PM

原帖由 eqhigh 於 2009-9-21 09:18 PM 發表


唔係話曼迷死忠或者乜野....但點可以用96:55黎講?
96:55係完場時間, 入波係95:27, 關96:55咩事呢?
如果奧雲冇入, 球證係95分30吹完場, 大家就覺得冇問題啦?

拎個完場時間黎講, 我覺得係絕對以偏蓋全既

P.S. 當我 ...
咪就係囉, 而家就係唔係講緊邊個入球, 總之係補左接近7分鐘, 唔係上面有人所講的6分鐘, 講緊補時時間, 關個入球乜事, 如果奧雲係响91分鐘入球, 場波補到99分鐘, 咁就覺得無問題? 唔攞完場時間黎講, 又點知補左幾多時?
作者: shehboy    時間: 2009-9-22 12:47 PM

原帖由 brightlee 於 2009-9-22 10:30 AM 發表


I give you another referee to talk about this incident, that's ex-English referee, Graham Poll


Havingwatched a complete re-run of Sunday's Manchester derby, I have toconclude that Martin Atkinson  ...
算把啦, Graham Poll, 呢位球證當年可以响世界盃發明"三黃一紅"經典案例, 佢講既野又當權威?

佢自己講左啦: 補時內有一個入球補多半分鐘, 一個換人補多半分鐘, 合共補多一分鐘之嘛, 咁95:00,3:3應該吹完場啦! 大佬, 球迷衝入場係吹左完場後至發生架, 呢條三黃一紅到今日仲係咁蒙盛盛.
作者: shehboy    時間: 2009-9-22 01:03 PM

原帖由 brightlee 於 2009-9-22 10:30 AM 發表


I give you another referee to talk about this incident, that's ex-English referee, Graham Poll


Havingwatched a complete re-run of Sunday's Manchester derby, I have toconclude that Martin Atkinson  ...
but he points out where the ambiguity is rather than proving the ref was right.

球例列出了可予補時的五個情況, 前四個都清楚講明係乜情形, 點解第五個係"any other cause"? 因為前四個都係球賽經常會出現的情況, 第五個係留番其他意外情況俾球證去做判斷. 但今次有無出現意外情況呢? 無. 如果, 斷章取義只睇第五個而照"any other cause"字面解, 指球證有權以任何理由補時, 咁球例中根本唔駛列出前四個情況, 有第五個已經講哂啦.

球例亦無話入球就要補時, 有啲國際賽有成十幾廿個入球, 亦不見得會補時十分鐘! 相反球證通常會大發慈悲, 免見弱旅俾人繼續蹂躪, 90分鐘即吹完場, 呢啲情況有睇開波都知.
作者: ming8964    時間: 2009-9-22 01:14 PM

反曼人士,不滿賽果, 輸打贏要, 遷怒球証, 亂屈黑哨!!!
作者: shehboy    時間: 2009-9-22 01:25 PM

原帖由 brightlee 於 2009-9-21 10:02 PM 發表


Sorry, the Law of the games has been changed ages ago.

Managers normally don't make subsitution during injury time. It is because they couldn't use "time wasting" streagy. It won't work, referee wi ...
唔駛sorry, 因為你講啲野o岩唔哂又錯唔哂. "i.e. subsitution, goal celebration, etc." 球例只有講"substitution", 但無講過"goal celebration".
"If you ask 10 professional referees, they will give you same answer." - 又係呢啲咁既結論... 咁我夠可以話你再問多十個球證會有好唔同既答案咯.
作者: xaero82    時間: 2009-9-22 01:54 PM

all i have to say Man City came playing for a draw, the score is 3-3 wif the injury time added on, and both side has the chance to go for the win, there is no advantage at that moment of time for either side, and it was man city the negative side who so badly needed tat point that they all went back defending for their lives, so they have themselves to blame for the loss instead of blaming the ref.
作者: brightlee    時間: 2009-9-22 06:25 PM

原帖由 shehboy 於 2009-9-22 03:25 PM 發表



唔駛sorry, 因為你講啲野o岩唔哂又錯唔哂. "i.e. subsitution, goal celebration, etc." 球例只有講"substitution", 但無講過"goal celebration".
"If you ask 10 professional referees, they will give you sam ...
Yes I am kind of frustrated when some people are saying the referee was bribed or corrupted.
I am definitely appreciated your point of view, even we may have different point of views.

If you ask me "goal celebration", I would group it to be kind of "time wasting" section. Of cos you may not agree about me. To prevent any argument from coaches/managers, referee will be adding any long "stoppage time" in add in time. That's why I think referee Mr Martin Atkinson did the right job, especially players were spending about 1 mins for goal celebration (in both incidents) during add in time.

From my memory, Arsenal did same thing about 2 years ago when they played Man Utd in Emirates Stadium. Robin Van Persie scored the winning goal in late (last attack) add in time, and referee still played about 10 seconds (like this one) after Arsenal did a really long goal celebration time.  



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