0000001

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 05:56 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif6 o5 C3 `5 f7 e# {( z
Why bank will sell 借據給第三者???
3 L+ W) y! s$ y9 [" iI was so confused.....

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0 t$ q3 ~. V5 ?5 i講到尾都係賺錢5 Y# W  i9 z" V9 a* W! Y3 t
so銀行可以不斷放款3 D% y* T8 @% a1 K9 T$ i
美國的房貸問題散佈到全世界" ]- S  [2 p; a6 E  c+ J
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mortgage loan
: E" q6 _& y" u1 T. v, V>conduit
* R+ g0 f0 O! s4 x>RMBS(Residential Mortgage Backed Securities): S2 m6 d, s4 Y1 q' L
>arranger$ H: L" `  b. W. T7 U9 g
>CDO(Collateralized Debt Obligation)
& o3 h) p( V7 D6 ~1 Z最後去到投資者

Kev

i thought it is the reason of rate of return.
2 K( G, `( S3 C' q+ BCDs could have different ratings, AAA -> F,
2 W% K( z6 G3 W, wmore risky ones would have higher premium (interest rate) as a compensation for an investment.
9 ?2 N7 s2 M& G% H. J+ Vmain reason why ppl buy those risky CDs is because the rate of return exceeds their internal rate of return,
' n1 N: r3 \6 g6 E  x- L7 n& h6 \2 yin other words, the interest rate of that investment > their required interest rate, therefore they invest in those securities.7 z0 ?; e! x8 A0 _6 F, K$ @
Also, fund managers would include risky assets in their portfolio for different purposes, eg efficiency.
$ s& s. L4 t8 I8 T6 O( G" Fsimilar to bonds, CDs trading in the secondary market have different value at different times,
9 }4 \' Q5 l/ C/ anormally the value is calculated by adding it's principle and interest.
$ ]) H8 v# Q) _5 s" deg. the value of the mortgage+the interests to be recieved in the future. " u2 K# B3 d4 h0 B5 y) r/ {
banks who sell the CDs, could enjoy a few benefits like, the present value of cash and passing the risk of holding a debt to another party.5 m# b4 w( _; u2 e3 ]# I. s1 ^

, \7 H, J  A: Iim not quite sure if the multiplier effect does really matter in this case.
# }* i7 ]% c/ V* G9 S2 S& sin stock market, it's the demand and supply pushing the price up/downwards.
8 w( g: U) j( o. gFor eg, A bought 10000 shares @10$ ; B sells 20000 shares to C @ $12,
! @4 m0 D6 X: JA's shares would suddenly increase to $120000 from $100000 which does not invlove any $ transaction.
6 n! V8 i* h/ T5 c9 ]7 l9 FThe capital loss that ppl suffer nowadays, i believe, most of them does not really suffer a real $ lost yet as long as they dont sell their securities. ! u6 m# i6 s- }& q7 b
but the value of their assets did really drop significantly.
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[ 本帖最後由 Kev 於 2008-10-8 07:26 PM 編輯 ]

Kev

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 04:09 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif( D& q9 _1 Z9 b. y
Refer to last example,
1 l3 v& }- W( Xthat means bank A have no money because we borrow 10 dollars from bank A , A9 k/ q9 S* T" O$ O$ ~* p
Because bank A doesnt have enough cash on hand 5 z+ F2 g9 x& p# R$ n1 m
therefore bank A need to be bankrrupt ??? Am I right ?? ...

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) o8 B# [0 ]7 Q" E" Z1 t" MA->B->C->D->E7 A' G6 R% B$ n% s: `% I' [1 |
so does it mean if E failed to pay D, ' V' M1 p) \( ^0 [! t" W5 L
all the B,C,D,E have to go bankrupt?
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+ d5 D1 \: j$ tthe multiplier just tell how much money created in a whole economy,
$ T+ v6 b; g" ^, ^in this case it doesnt really matter how much money is created,
: F5 |7 _' V8 S- Eit's the problem of the debt itself.
! z, z7 c3 \* h( o3 x: u$ gthe debt(securities) is bad, faulty, that harmed the whole system.

benny1219

原帖由 kerr12ca 於 2008-10-8 02:44 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
& l: W4 _  ?7 R5 K. r小弟一直都唔明...
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3 ~; }' s' c# J% X: }全世界都蝕錢，咁邊個賺緊錢呢?
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無可能淨係有人蝕錢無人賺架嘛...& K$ r4 V3 w5 q& J& L- P' g* b

" K4 ~* n+ q# H3 J8 B6 O敬請各師兄解答: }0 M4 K7 J- X( E- R

# o6 A8 ^- i4 R( ]  m- e$ L' a  p2 KThanks

' m1 n4 |# a  t& i5 b
那些根本係 紙上財富  
/ ^2 c! V8 _+ e2 ~1 ~各式各樣的證券被炒到上天 你一樣唔賣那筆錢永遠都不是真的存在

qulapo

with regards to the current crisis, Chain of fools does a reasonable job of explaining what happened with a nice graphic% `( Z$ V3 [. i. Z. m) I

4 T( d, T# A2 Ihttp://www.thedeal.com/newsweekly/images/100608_NWleverageFloChrt.gif

fderek

其實個D錢係你可以當係虛擬資產6 n# `5 w6 G" Q
當經濟好,投資銀行相信會賺錢, 物價既估值相對較高) l# |; Z% _, W1 L+ r6 A& e8 C; J
於是投資銀行就去搵銀行抵押借錢投資, 打個比喻1蚊既野借10蚊4 B: t0 K& a6 o* Q- f% c9 I) f' K+ k
個件物價係市場好既時候升, 例如15%先算,變左12蚊啦7 r4 c: t3 i" d" W+ {
扣番利息當10里, 咁公司都可以賺左11.5-10(1.1)=0.5蚊,
% ]* H, I/ J; I2 @. ]計番回報率就已經係50%,所以可以好好賺: C" _* [. R/ o, x
前提係銀行之間要互相信任先可以咁樣借法
+ C! {  p5 i- u: {' I# v! I! e同埋個市場既前境要係好先得7 I6 ~1 p; J# K/ M+ g$ S
但當經濟一差,公司估值趺了,物價不升反趺
: H. T" J; N1 f例如剛才說10蚊的, 趺到得番9蚊, % p$ c' [; i' F- J) ?4 C
咁投資銀行一下子就要還11蚊, 一來一回變左虧200%
' a% {. }% M3 Z0 `$ \所以你就會覺得D錢好似蒸發哂咁
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9 t, k6 }8 \+ K  E) @3 T+ ~- i你都可以當標野咁諗, 個樣野多人可以狂升值,
' t  Q8 G3 m) ^# z5 v但當冇人要既時候一蚊都唔值...中間D錢其實真係冇人話賺左~

kuru

唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢,
$ E5 F1 J; i( K' o9 J淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
. I( ^! v* v8 L6 C/ ?呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行  R9 N9 t$ }# x6 ~0 @1 s. B
咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊?

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 kuru 於 2008-10-12 05:08 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif( _, N0 J) v' _  u! J" l
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢,
* o; I7 J6 s; W" b* h0 ~2 F# k/ H# P" w, Y淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒, 4 p; R2 }* O) W  v) b6 k
呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行
7 p3 M2 @; V) g5 S" ^9 ?" b& f咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊? ...

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! p6 Y" o9 G6 l1 U7 y6 ~& u( [: I正係咁樣4 ]# ^/ r- y# }3 W# X/ c
其實, 以個人立場去睇, 美國好多市民都唔怕銀行/財務/投資公司結業
* n, o1 x: }* ~( H+ ^0 `. I分分鐘佢地唔使還錢
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; ~  T) a7 X$ i7 v! _$ u& X# w再講, 美國人先洗未來錢應該係世界第一, 唔知點解無錢都可以買咁車買樓,
2 G# w5 x' V# E1 T- ]9 o2 u6 c- q+ F連國家都係問人借, 不停發債券, 印鈔票. E4 j/ K. ^% K1 I
一個國家好少出口, 而又大量入口 ,反映到佢唔多生產& C- S  ]$ z% j4 ^8 c$ k
編編唔生產又使用物品使用得最多, 美國就係咁既情況

Jk

咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 Jk 於 2008-10-22 02:15 AM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
2 f& T. R4 J- G  t* P咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

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3 a' s- x( U8 d  N7 u% U其實係..." N& v; R7 i" P0 e7 f5 Y
因為以前未生產, 先消費
/ I9 N1 ?7 h; `5 d而家就要多生產, 少消費