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原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 05:56 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
. }0 J, x1 }* C0 o0 U* C) VWhy bank will sell 借據給第三者???6 a, p' K, N* F+ Q# ^
I was so confused.....
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  o0 ^6 P9 x$ {+ S2 B; W& ?; v講到尾都係賺錢
/ _8 {2 p$ D4 h) A3 M1 O3 s1 ]so銀行可以不斷放款: Q4 O6 {# N+ V% `8 C% v
美國的房貸問題散佈到全世界
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& M) t7 U( l; V9 l, [1 s7 Fmortgage loan
3 x0 a6 [% S9 g/ @>conduit
4 G  `5 Z& g7 `$ E>RMBS(Residential Mortgage Backed Securities)4 \3 {7 x0 ^, r$ f4 B
>arranger& o9 o  t- r7 {2 ~
>CDO(Collateralized Debt Obligation)
' j' L3 H  D( `7 Y  q最後去到投資者
i thought it is the reason of rate of return.; @9 j, t' d: u: w, C3 l% M
CDs could have different ratings, AAA -> F,
, ^3 U# s5 Y6 O( B5 mmore risky ones would have higher premium (interest rate) as a compensation for an investment.
, X; C1 I/ U) e6 f, R5 J2 J' Emain reason why ppl buy those risky CDs is because the rate of return exceeds their internal rate of return,
2 f7 L  l- X, e2 ]9 n" _0 p$ [in other words, the interest rate of that investment > their required interest rate, therefore they invest in those securities.
2 N7 v6 m0 K2 F0 ~. vAlso, fund managers would include risky assets in their portfolio for different purposes, eg efficiency.
0 O0 I  e3 W+ E6 z+ y) a/ S/ h; ], f! zsimilar to bonds, CDs trading in the secondary market have different value at different times,
2 s2 E7 d4 I; c7 ]+ Snormally the value is calculated by adding it's principle and interest.
& Z0 b( w; b9 V' V1 c! t5 Leg. the value of the mortgage+the interests to be recieved in the future.
! A+ v% p& Z5 t3 \& Y; j/ E& ^banks who sell the CDs, could enjoy a few benefits like, the present value of cash and passing the risk of holding a debt to another party.3 c3 _( Z9 L  E, t! m4 S

1 P' O1 {( B; v6 c' n: U4 ^im not quite sure if the multiplier effect does really matter in this case.
5 E) D- s  T) E" Q3 m1 zin stock market, it's the demand and supply pushing the price up/downwards.: h6 V. b5 e# J( q
For eg, A bought 10000 shares @10$ ; B sells 20000 shares to C @ $12,
6 q; ]) s7 M; C0 F) {A's shares would suddenly increase to $120000 from $100000 which does not invlove any $ transaction.
5 U* c! ?' m. @1 O$ XThe capital loss that ppl suffer nowadays, i believe, most of them does not really suffer a real $ lost yet as long as they dont sell their securities.
7 z8 d4 w. f# g: t- ~but the value of their assets did really drop significantly.% X9 A: X8 ?2 T) j' ~! J

) G$ a+ V- W! Z( P% C[ 本帖最後由 Kev 於 2008-10-8 07:26 PM 編輯 ]
原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 04:09 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif  f' U# p+ t( B* I% }$ u
Refer to last example,* j4 U! B  w+ T% Z1 ]3 Z; w7 I
that means bank A have no money because we borrow 10 dollars from bank A
9 ]4 [: Q4 a" f  m" z1 xBecause bank A doesnt have enough cash on hand
$ Q9 Z7 q  C% i" B3 c) ~" Xtherefore bank A need to be bankrrupt ??? Am I right ?? ...
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3 P2 G* ]7 K3 e: m7 f. IA->B->C->D->E$ B1 F" F5 `3 O+ r) h
so does it mean if E failed to pay D,
1 W8 w* g, ~9 N* vall the B,C,D,E have to go bankrupt?5 X6 ^. `% K7 P* f0 b5 C

+ ~: W" \* N( w4 i
: i/ K0 o, Y! F( Q3 M+ Pthe multiplier just tell how much money created in a whole economy,
1 k" z4 p5 C" |4 i) h" {in this case it doesnt really matter how much money is created, 0 b, z( w) n# p9 d9 d
it's the problem of the debt itself.
) L' p8 _8 M7 `( \the debt(securities) is bad, faulty, that harmed the whole system.
原帖由 kerr12ca 於 2008-10-8 02:44 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
, W! j( J" K( p! V: Y$ R3 a" b小弟一直都唔明...
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全世界都蝕錢,咁邊個賺緊錢呢?
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% d- x) h. h- i4 E1 y無可能淨係有人蝕錢無人賺架嘛...! D2 |+ p6 d9 o; Q$ _

7 W$ ]- [( c& q8 j- L/ S1 Y敬請各師兄解答
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Thanks
1 U2 b3 e, I% ]. T  ~( U那些根本係 紙上財富  
/ E& C7 D# i7 @; ]4 m各式各樣的證券被炒到上天 你一樣唔賣那筆錢永遠都不是真的存在
with regards to the current crisis, Chain of fools does a reasonable job of explaining what happened with a nice graphic
6 {$ V& A/ }" W- M% C" y6 r( G: `  d" ?5 B+ j- p$ n: |1 v9 r* G
http://www.thedeal.com/newsweekly/images/100608_NWleverageFloChrt.gif
其實個D錢係你可以當係虛擬資產
: S$ F) Y. {6 W$ g, V% s, o當經濟好,投資銀行相信會賺錢, 物價既估值相對較高: l# A' G! I+ x& C
於是投資銀行就去搵銀行抵押借錢投資, 打個比喻1蚊既野借10蚊) A% f: W  [. M! ]6 S* }, N4 k
個件物價係市場好既時候升, 例如15%先算,變左12蚊啦
! x* n2 r$ ]8 f4 W3 c& j扣番利息當10里, 咁公司都可以賺左11.5-10(1.1)=0.5蚊,& J  E. J+ j$ C& V; K- W- D
計番回報率就已經係50%,所以可以好好賺
2 ^/ Q; q3 r* c1 S6 D7 d前提係銀行之間要互相信任先可以咁樣借法/ {0 a  u9 r' y
同埋個市場既前境要係好先得
, M; _" J9 J( o. b& M# d但當經濟一差,公司估值趺了,物價不升反趺: m! z) J% M0 {
例如剛才說10蚊的, 趺到得番9蚊,
: g* b7 b* t2 j  I& {) \- y咁投資銀行一下子就要還11蚊, 一來一回變左虧200%
  f2 t& f* z) @" d% O/ L所以你就會覺得D錢好似蒸發哂咁0 G7 z9 d8 E6 x4 S& N- u

7 _0 p5 T  q' U# k1 [0 w0 R$ i8 }你都可以當標野咁諗, 個樣野多人可以狂升值, ! S: Y- u' I- Q0 {, ?6 [5 s6 N
但當冇人要既時候一蚊都唔值...中間D錢其實真係冇人話賺左~
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢, $ ^, w& I' z. J3 P' B3 p
淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒, 0 T7 i- _7 n! V% }# d6 O
呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行
: ?  _4 P8 P( c0 E咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊?
原帖由 kuru 於 2008-10-12 05:08 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif+ C- a+ F8 B) B3 R& y- x
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢,
, I7 {  ]8 l; p4 u0 ]淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
& G. U  X5 T/ S1 X. ~呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行
/ \0 B, |; q$ |咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊? ...
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/ [' T" A9 D9 H" x# @正係咁樣
4 I; U3 p# v- Q% ^7 t+ x: m5 h* w其實, 以個人立場去睇, 美國好多市民都唔怕銀行/財務/投資公司結業' T) L3 X1 x- }
分分鐘佢地唔使還錢% _, n5 F: b$ `; a

' D9 u7 W$ o! I- |  y9 K再講, 美國人先洗未來錢應該係世界第一, 唔知點解無錢都可以買咁車買樓,6 H8 x. q3 s) U. [, W9 O
連國家都係問人借, 不停發債券, 印鈔票( C. U3 L+ U9 k9 E* r
一個國家好少出口, 而又大量入口 ,反映到佢唔多生產) P: R1 S) z8 _
編編唔生產又使用物品使用得最多, 美國就係咁既情況
咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???
原帖由 Jk 於 2008-10-22 02:15 AM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
5 z4 v! v' ~+ |1 W! g9 T- ^咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???
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) e* }- P. ]# l1 U/ w9 v8 Q$ ]: s其實係...) u2 E/ P7 W* p4 p1 x
因為以前未生產, 先消費
, H9 {- ?* H% `# l1 T5 D9 P- s. i而家就要多生產, 少消費
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