0000001

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 05:56 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif" k6 _3 C2 \9 w* C- e7 h
Why bank will sell 借據給第三者???8 L( k, l! B  P7 Q5 w
I was so confused.....

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$ Y5 a6 i1 }+ i: {! y2 S講到尾都係賺錢/ l: E5 S9 F* T* E/ A/ f/ T2 S
so銀行可以不斷放款3 m  q5 b5 [* g, `7 v
美國的房貸問題散佈到全世界
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% J. V# @8 n, e* Rmortgage loan / `" D$ f; B4 Y; i
>conduit
* ^  C* ~2 E4 N; }/ r>RMBS(Residential Mortgage Backed Securities)3 n6 }" U0 ~& |1 R
>arranger
! R" H" r0 v" l1 P0 }>CDO(Collateralized Debt Obligation)
& X6 [6 d" g* W* V9 p最後去到投資者

Kev

i thought it is the reason of rate of return.1 g; b/ \% ^, M0 r$ j& ^
CDs could have different ratings, AAA -> F,. ]; ]( W( F0 q, k0 W# ]
more risky ones would have higher premium (interest rate) as a compensation for an investment.
( S9 }& U, i! n4 f/ E0 d5 _0 ~main reason why ppl buy those risky CDs is because the rate of return exceeds their internal rate of return,
3 [+ i+ v4 g1 \$ O: lin other words, the interest rate of that investment > their required interest rate, therefore they invest in those securities.0 Q1 o) k4 G# b3 s
Also, fund managers would include risky assets in their portfolio for different purposes, eg efficiency." i$ e/ M' f0 b) `6 r# `9 |
similar to bonds, CDs trading in the secondary market have different value at different times,
7 d; r0 [: A# I/ ~/ X, E' fnormally the value is calculated by adding it's principle and interest. 1 U& n. L% D$ d0 q  j$ n
eg. the value of the mortgage+the interests to be recieved in the future. ; J( B* r4 \) m
banks who sell the CDs, could enjoy a few benefits like, the present value of cash and passing the risk of holding a debt to another party.
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im not quite sure if the multiplier effect does really matter in this case.6 Z4 o' u9 X8 a: p. P/ s1 c
in stock market, it's the demand and supply pushing the price up/downwards.2 Z, _6 O( V2 v/ g3 ^$ S
For eg, A bought 10000 shares @10$ ; B sells 20000 shares to C @ $12,6 e3 \2 @0 x% w" B
A's shares would suddenly increase to $120000 from $100000 which does not invlove any $ transaction.
2 {. H' N+ B6 o1 |/ A' N( BThe capital loss that ppl suffer nowadays, i believe, most of them does not really suffer a real $ lost yet as long as they dont sell their securities.
0 ~3 y; E$ i: b- E7 Z( A% cbut the value of their assets did really drop significantly.9 ?. v* v- _3 J1 {- F" \- ^' ~% S; U
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[ 本帖最後由 Kev 於 2008-10-8 07:26 PM 編輯 ]

Kev

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 04:09 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif) b; l$ x& m0 V- D- p
Refer to last example,
' H8 @5 d0 M( }3 ^7 `% Y( wthat means bank A have no money because we borrow 10 dollars from bank A - O4 {6 v/ h7 i; |1 o. u$ D: t
Because bank A doesnt have enough cash on hand . g& K$ ?# l9 q& v. L( _
therefore bank A need to be bankrrupt ??? Am I right ?? ...

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0 A6 ^- ^2 U3 ?/ D; iA->B->C->D->E0 Q* v% [( X& K  _6 ^3 M# v
so does it mean if E failed to pay D,   L' g$ ~# @2 i6 r, O; l& U; L
all the B,C,D,E have to go bankrupt?$ v- X' N; E" K6 b; R  N" j

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* s5 L; K* n* Ythe multiplier just tell how much money created in a whole economy, 2 F- Y" M+ _0 z
in this case it doesnt really matter how much money is created, & K! t+ ]/ y1 `. X% B0 @" q
it's the problem of the debt itself.
0 t; }$ B: n; ]/ R  `' t/ t. Ythe debt(securities) is bad, faulty, that harmed the whole system.

benny1219

原帖由 kerr12ca 於 2008-10-8 02:44 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif  Q& ~& }$ A2 w. l: _- w" B5 i9 n
小弟一直都唔明...- j, k1 a3 }8 L. n4 P2 o
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全世界都蝕錢，咁邊個賺緊錢呢?3 M5 A' d# Y' }; d" U9 U4 q$ K0 G) Y) S
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無可能淨係有人蝕錢無人賺架嘛...# e3 m$ h3 \+ H9 @# _
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敬請各師兄解答
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5 }& ^" o7 M; `- }9 l& |& oThanks

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那些根本係 紙上財富  # h9 n6 E" I/ O% H& b$ g7 v
各式各樣的證券被炒到上天 你一樣唔賣那筆錢永遠都不是真的存在

qulapo

with regards to the current crisis, Chain of fools does a reasonable job of explaining what happened with a nice graphic0 ^' i, [/ b& H3 Q; j) J

" g# n4 c# ?- e2 b9 N% B4 Xhttp://www.thedeal.com/newsweekly/images/100608_NWleverageFloChrt.gif

fderek

其實個D錢係你可以當係虛擬資產
& x& p5 t, t) g4 w& D" N當經濟好,投資銀行相信會賺錢, 物價既估值相對較高
( r, r( _, R% Z5 Y* Y! Y2 ~; Z6 Q8 F於是投資銀行就去搵銀行抵押借錢投資, 打個比喻1蚊既野借10蚊1 p4 a# K4 l2 `$ V1 [
個件物價係市場好既時候升, 例如15%先算,變左12蚊啦
0 \5 z$ U2 Q  k# j3 p7 u2 I3 k* ^扣番利息當10里, 咁公司都可以賺左11.5-10(1.1)=0.5蚊,
: Y! t* o/ \) h" `+ W! c/ V計番回報率就已經係50%,所以可以好好賺- U& V- n8 E" U5 K- o5 w
前提係銀行之間要互相信任先可以咁樣借法. Z6 Y7 f& o$ Q8 x1 d0 u, E
同埋個市場既前境要係好先得
7 |$ r" t6 y" K* ?7 V但當經濟一差,公司估值趺了,物價不升反趺& M  v+ Z0 ~, g& y$ Y4 Y
例如剛才說10蚊的, 趺到得番9蚊,
2 T5 {+ B- o) _1 Z0 F1 a咁投資銀行一下子就要還11蚊, 一來一回變左虧200%
1 r* R0 x6 d2 r) \1 V所以你就會覺得D錢好似蒸發哂咁
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( D, i, W% e5 V: w你都可以當標野咁諗, 個樣野多人可以狂升值, : {- ~# e) D6 ^% |
但當冇人要既時候一蚊都唔值...中間D錢其實真係冇人話賺左~

kuru

唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢, ! \+ V% L) B) }, S8 j; r
淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
. I5 z! c2 L/ b4 L" o: u% ?" v呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行  o$ f4 ^7 D7 t! @2 r3 i8 L/ D+ j
咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊?

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 kuru 於 2008-10-12 05:08 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif  z9 N# j; |3 W* O, E1 w7 ]
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢,
$ o5 O- j: m4 ^% H: D  ]+ t淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒, 9 x1 U" Q" y5 e  t9 f% W: w
呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行+ n% ]" a  X% P$ m  k, x1 _
咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊? ...

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正係咁樣* Y. `9 c5 f+ k% `# ~4 C# k& f
其實, 以個人立場去睇, 美國好多市民都唔怕銀行/財務/投資公司結業# F* ^# ?/ |$ u5 |. N1 Y
分分鐘佢地唔使還錢4 \: V; ~( Q2 n$ u) R' x

+ s, v0 _; Q  N# Q* |4 Y6 \9 ^再講, 美國人先洗未來錢應該係世界第一, 唔知點解無錢都可以買咁車買樓,6 l# \5 L. D  t, E5 T
連國家都係問人借, 不停發債券, 印鈔票3 o$ e2 k+ J0 f! T2 @
一個國家好少出口, 而又大量入口 ,反映到佢唔多生產
9 E( H8 l3 V6 K9 _! @編編唔生產又使用物品使用得最多, 美國就係咁既情況

Jk

咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 Jk 於 2008-10-22 02:15 AM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif2 ?& L/ L2 O& q* f5 O
咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

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其實係...
! o. n1 Q& G5 h' I4 @5 f4 p5 D因為以前未生產, 先消費
8 K" b. J% k6 k; u; \6 d0 J# r而家就要多生產, 少消費