0000001

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 05:56 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
# L) T( O. j2 FWhy bank will sell 借據給第三者???: y* m1 W" B/ S0 J$ r
I was so confused.....

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, U6 ?' y3 H3 z5 g/ @) X講到尾都係賺錢
7 f- x3 s, A4 Q( f! m8 R/ Nso銀行可以不斷放款
. l0 ]8 d6 p+ S. }美國的房貸問題散佈到全世界
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mortgage loan ! U+ T6 H* Q! w7 s
>conduit. L% l) M# f4 [0 O6 R! y/ L4 R
>RMBS(Residential Mortgage Backed Securities)5 `  n/ n( z; Q( ~3 E" D8 @* |# P9 k' l
>arranger6 Y9 G  y) `- i* u+ z
>CDO(Collateralized Debt Obligation)' m! A6 l$ o- ~2 v
最後去到投資者

Kev

i thought it is the reason of rate of return.
6 G* x/ K0 P8 ~; m1 t8 cCDs could have different ratings, AAA -> F,; P( W9 [- ?0 W
more risky ones would have higher premium (interest rate) as a compensation for an investment.
$ m; C3 ?4 a  @8 u# H3 Ymain reason why ppl buy those risky CDs is because the rate of return exceeds their internal rate of return,
3 S8 B6 e& E! |; cin other words, the interest rate of that investment > their required interest rate, therefore they invest in those securities.
6 B* u1 P' ?7 W3 `: C$ xAlso, fund managers would include risky assets in their portfolio for different purposes, eg efficiency.
; q* ~' H( i; b; M0 Tsimilar to bonds, CDs trading in the secondary market have different value at different times,
/ `. ~+ J1 `9 Y: g9 d2 S& Snormally the value is calculated by adding it's principle and interest. ) f2 t" Y9 I7 p3 J9 c
eg. the value of the mortgage+the interests to be recieved in the future. 0 b8 e$ f& }$ g; i- k( v
banks who sell the CDs, could enjoy a few benefits like, the present value of cash and passing the risk of holding a debt to another party.
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im not quite sure if the multiplier effect does really matter in this case.
; j+ w3 C- ]6 Nin stock market, it's the demand and supply pushing the price up/downwards.+ l6 K# A  ?( Q7 x8 s/ T) ]
For eg, A bought 10000 shares @10$ ; B sells 20000 shares to C @ $12,2 N+ Y7 v$ a  c$ \6 z( z
A's shares would suddenly increase to $120000 from $100000 which does not invlove any $ transaction.
! Z* ?( L7 b/ S/ a# |" r6 F: L! {The capital loss that ppl suffer nowadays, i believe, most of them does not really suffer a real $ lost yet as long as they dont sell their securities. ( v% C8 h* ?' O$ f
but the value of their assets did really drop significantly.3 k( z. c. x1 A* U1 ]" F7 O; v  o
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[ 本帖最後由 Kev 於 2008-10-8 07:26 PM 編輯 ]

Kev

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 04:09 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif; m' F" a2 w/ J. }# c5 p
Refer to last example,
7 s) v' ~1 S) v( n. b" wthat means bank A have no money because we borrow 10 dollars from bank A
: W8 |' p! W* N  ~8 vBecause bank A doesnt have enough cash on hand + O% ]9 g" h6 S/ f
therefore bank A need to be bankrrupt ??? Am I right ?? ...

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A->B->C->D->E
5 S2 P$ t0 d4 A, V  b! l5 O! Iso does it mean if E failed to pay D,
9 h5 _2 {; v1 Jall the B,C,D,E have to go bankrupt?
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  E3 B. H& _4 y8 c9 b2 P& N7 o3 ^! Vthe multiplier just tell how much money created in a whole economy,
1 I* x2 k0 X% J) V3 }* o6 k3 |in this case it doesnt really matter how much money is created,
9 Z& s' }/ V& t9 q! s: a0 jit's the problem of the debt itself.
0 v- G% g5 X  B; t- R/ d: Rthe debt(securities) is bad, faulty, that harmed the whole system.

benny1219

原帖由 kerr12ca 於 2008-10-8 02:44 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
" @  L' G" |; M$ K# E小弟一直都唔明...
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8 _4 Z7 \' |" B& O: S/ @! x' K全世界都蝕錢，咁邊個賺緊錢呢?7 v: s1 _) g$ F
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無可能淨係有人蝕錢無人賺架嘛...  X) B5 P" h0 f% T2 V

6 `8 p% c% _, n& H- [敬請各師兄解答4 d  U9 |& m5 K3 _

, p2 n; r, x; D$ c& w9 v5 qThanks

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那些根本係 紙上財富  0 n" j% c  M, |; E2 b
各式各樣的證券被炒到上天 你一樣唔賣那筆錢永遠都不是真的存在

qulapo

with regards to the current crisis, Chain of fools does a reasonable job of explaining what happened with a nice graphic5 [0 _% B4 [1 L! R- @: y- x
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http://www.thedeal.com/newsweekly/images/100608_NWleverageFloChrt.gif

fderek

其實個D錢係你可以當係虛擬資產8 o/ n8 ^1 i, i- E8 R! P
當經濟好,投資銀行相信會賺錢, 物價既估值相對較高- z$ ]4 B+ K1 I2 X  u9 q
於是投資銀行就去搵銀行抵押借錢投資, 打個比喻1蚊既野借10蚊  [, ~2 \- n$ h* C) F  ]
個件物價係市場好既時候升, 例如15%先算,變左12蚊啦  n) W, A" v+ Y- b; _: e# u
扣番利息當10里, 咁公司都可以賺左11.5-10(1.1)=0.5蚊,' ^% E; v4 F3 w! ^2 j+ X
計番回報率就已經係50%,所以可以好好賺' M8 \1 g. f6 A0 ^9 q* Y
前提係銀行之間要互相信任先可以咁樣借法
& s0 y' p* G7 O同埋個市場既前境要係好先得$ a  o: F$ G2 _8 A
但當經濟一差,公司估值趺了,物價不升反趺
; R7 a7 {5 p" l5 Z5 s6 [例如剛才說10蚊的, 趺到得番9蚊,
$ C% n( F7 u% ~/ b7 w. ^5 m咁投資銀行一下子就要還11蚊, 一來一回變左虧200%4 W, K! v# ?; v+ a. s2 i
所以你就會覺得D錢好似蒸發哂咁9 P1 c  @6 u' G6 L

: B& H9 S, U! g# W: l. ~你都可以當標野咁諗, 個樣野多人可以狂升值, 4 u$ W+ J8 ]1 U' n! x
但當冇人要既時候一蚊都唔值...中間D錢其實真係冇人話賺左~

kuru

唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢,
$ Q8 Z+ }) l: b, Q# N' h淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒, 6 I  a  Z+ g+ W1 i3 g1 c
呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行$ {- {" w9 `4 k# e
咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊?

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 kuru 於 2008-10-12 05:08 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif* K( T4 }$ O0 P7 g5 G+ j7 K' j
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢, # x5 F* j% f+ |
淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
6 F3 W& K% S8 ?7 k5 N呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行% l5 s! \. }4 r0 s) n* u9 L
咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊? ...

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* Y# H/ M# S8 G正係咁樣& p' t% E, n5 M# \2 J, k
其實, 以個人立場去睇, 美國好多市民都唔怕銀行/財務/投資公司結業- F0 b% H; F4 w1 s- i' K: e
分分鐘佢地唔使還錢
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再講, 美國人先洗未來錢應該係世界第一, 唔知點解無錢都可以買咁車買樓,# Y' [: T% }" O! I' Y) [
連國家都係問人借, 不停發債券, 印鈔票
  K$ P# h+ }9 a6 D& @& [- e一個國家好少出口, 而又大量入口 ,反映到佢唔多生產
# w. J: M0 L* i; X5 j- _; w8 R編編唔生產又使用物品使用得最多, 美國就係咁既情況

Jk

咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 Jk 於 2008-10-22 02:15 AM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
6 y" _# ]% I& r' Q/ w咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

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其實係.../ N6 v$ u$ [  b
因為以前未生產, 先消費
1 k3 [6 g9 Q. @+ c6 S而家就要多生產, 少消費