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原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 05:56 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
% O, K1 _8 ~! }1 pWhy bank will sell 借據給第三者???0 [6 b' u% q  L1 y
I was so confused.....
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/ \/ s2 Q0 @1 S. c; W講到尾都係賺錢
; A. i7 M6 ^6 Oso銀行可以不斷放款" C% e& m& D: [# q
美國的房貸問題散佈到全世界; P7 Q) P" e: l# Q3 v

7 A+ n* R1 j; C8 t# C& ]mortgage loan 0 p6 X/ y9 ^! J6 n
>conduit9 N% M8 z4 _: a0 T' h$ z
>RMBS(Residential Mortgage Backed Securities)! R# U& u; Q/ X6 J  y/ a) _  q+ \
>arranger  j: p" e: l3 ^  a% a2 _
>CDO(Collateralized Debt Obligation)
) T' I( d6 b8 ?* x最後去到投資者
i thought it is the reason of rate of return.# X) p& e2 b3 |0 X: f: M9 R6 Z
CDs could have different ratings, AAA -> F,/ [: L# H+ O6 \& Z2 @  m
more risky ones would have higher premium (interest rate) as a compensation for an investment.- ]/ E) a/ {- ?- Y7 c9 F- n; {7 I
main reason why ppl buy those risky CDs is because the rate of return exceeds their internal rate of return,
$ i% e- {" w1 vin other words, the interest rate of that investment > their required interest rate, therefore they invest in those securities.
/ b' \5 }' o3 FAlso, fund managers would include risky assets in their portfolio for different purposes, eg efficiency.
4 w- @# P3 O5 ?# lsimilar to bonds, CDs trading in the secondary market have different value at different times,
# Y$ O+ Z+ [* v6 S$ C* r9 K; Enormally the value is calculated by adding it's principle and interest.
1 E9 Z5 n0 z5 J) V$ _eg. the value of the mortgage+the interests to be recieved in the future. 7 Z5 X+ l3 N* ]4 a8 v5 g2 w
banks who sell the CDs, could enjoy a few benefits like, the present value of cash and passing the risk of holding a debt to another party.
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: r2 j4 S1 c& \0 r) L" ^3 vim not quite sure if the multiplier effect does really matter in this case.
4 I* F( \' }* v; {in stock market, it's the demand and supply pushing the price up/downwards.4 h9 t; ~! N& `+ Q* u
For eg, A bought 10000 shares @10$ ; B sells 20000 shares to C @ $12,
& {: v$ z: @) D3 [A's shares would suddenly increase to $120000 from $100000 which does not invlove any $ transaction.
) b) w8 a% [2 Y# [8 }The capital loss that ppl suffer nowadays, i believe, most of them does not really suffer a real $ lost yet as long as they dont sell their securities.
6 U7 k6 u  T7 H! H% z0 t7 q0 \/ lbut the value of their assets did really drop significantly.
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[ 本帖最後由 Kev 於 2008-10-8 07:26 PM 編輯 ]
原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 04:09 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
2 Z8 s& Y( ~$ U3 G9 P$ ^1 i, w. SRefer to last example,- t7 k, _$ j/ ?4 |- a$ @/ I0 U+ T8 U  h
that means bank A have no money because we borrow 10 dollars from bank A
/ K# b- x: U9 kBecause bank A doesnt have enough cash on hand 3 C- T9 X# J* i9 M" n
therefore bank A need to be bankrrupt ??? Am I right ?? ...
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7 {$ u  X5 t% v. N  b0 I0 {$ lA->B->C->D->E  M2 A" b1 `+ d. @3 X- C6 @
so does it mean if E failed to pay D,
! |) N, L: t  [* E4 Wall the B,C,D,E have to go bankrupt?
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the multiplier just tell how much money created in a whole economy,
1 j7 F' w& z: Nin this case it doesnt really matter how much money is created, 9 Y1 l% f; D* ]% f+ B! i
it's the problem of the debt itself.
; [9 M  N. }' i% [' q8 @& K0 i+ T9 Sthe debt(securities) is bad, faulty, that harmed the whole system.
原帖由 kerr12ca 於 2008-10-8 02:44 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif' R$ `* S% M* }6 f5 t
小弟一直都唔明...
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" a; g% D( |! V/ m# h0 `( X. E1 p( G全世界都蝕錢,咁邊個賺緊錢呢?
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+ U( n0 j8 D2 z無可能淨係有人蝕錢無人賺架嘛...$ G2 E9 }4 C0 `

8 j- a8 m- Y+ @% a敬請各師兄解答
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+ L) R. [  o4 E3 XThanks
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那些根本係 紙上財富  " ?1 v/ M! E; d3 `) T
各式各樣的證券被炒到上天 你一樣唔賣那筆錢永遠都不是真的存在
with regards to the current crisis, Chain of fools does a reasonable job of explaining what happened with a nice graphic1 J5 r4 L+ t6 L' J, S6 ]0 ]1 ~
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http://www.thedeal.com/newsweekly/images/100608_NWleverageFloChrt.gif
其實個D錢係你可以當係虛擬資產# t( V4 `* I: ]# ~. y9 j' p4 H
當經濟好,投資銀行相信會賺錢, 物價既估值相對較高- H8 i$ L) ~/ E9 y6 z0 y
於是投資銀行就去搵銀行抵押借錢投資, 打個比喻1蚊既野借10蚊
; h6 D. @0 s: s& @. t個件物價係市場好既時候升, 例如15%先算,變左12蚊啦
( ?$ A3 T) `# P3 G扣番利息當10里, 咁公司都可以賺左11.5-10(1.1)=0.5蚊,
1 G- y6 p* Z% t# Y7 r' ~' K計番回報率就已經係50%,所以可以好好賺% e7 d8 z, c, R! X/ ?4 N
前提係銀行之間要互相信任先可以咁樣借法- w- O  E: U5 \' t  G8 I
同埋個市場既前境要係好先得9 }! {4 Y9 F( X
但當經濟一差,公司估值趺了,物價不升反趺
8 @* U' Y1 J) O+ t8 e3 E例如剛才說10蚊的, 趺到得番9蚊, / {3 g+ H% ~* u! C4 M0 Z
咁投資銀行一下子就要還11蚊, 一來一回變左虧200%
. @8 e4 Y3 u6 q8 c+ x- Z/ c+ I所以你就會覺得D錢好似蒸發哂咁& D2 }% L0 G3 ~; d+ \8 H

9 C0 N: {+ O% E- M. t7 |; i你都可以當標野咁諗, 個樣野多人可以狂升值, 2 o+ ?, K) F2 Z
但當冇人要既時候一蚊都唔值...中間D錢其實真係冇人話賺左~
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢, 8 |; M3 @) Z7 d. S
淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
8 C  b; V9 \& N8 a$ t呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行
; P4 y: C( n, C8 o咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊?
原帖由 kuru 於 2008-10-12 05:08 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif- O- K( Q* u* u0 {! T  Y( U- p
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢, ' w2 B3 W# V# a! G' G
淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
4 S/ y1 v5 \* @  m6 F呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行6 \# z  A( H% d. ~7 U6 a: T5 [7 i
咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊? ...
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正係咁樣) H/ @1 o5 o. A% Q( H3 U
其實, 以個人立場去睇, 美國好多市民都唔怕銀行/財務/投資公司結業
% {" M& ^: Y# t分分鐘佢地唔使還錢
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# ~" b, K7 c# a! G) F0 @再講, 美國人先洗未來錢應該係世界第一, 唔知點解無錢都可以買咁車買樓,
4 R' E2 E- U) D! P連國家都係問人借, 不停發債券, 印鈔票3 [+ T* q- K0 y- s
一個國家好少出口, 而又大量入口 ,反映到佢唔多生產
$ N( u, U  B3 M編編唔生產又使用物品使用得最多, 美國就係咁既情況
咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???
原帖由 Jk 於 2008-10-22 02:15 AM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif: p7 ?& }) h# F2 v" P1 B
咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???
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其實係...
* V1 t: @9 a: g. [& B因為以前未生產, 先消費4 F8 T7 ?5 {( C& j* _  L- p
而家就要多生產, 少消費
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