westsider

Originally posted by x_integration_x at 2005-8-17 12:54 PM:


I doubt that anyone in this wor...

So how would you answer if I ask you "why do you believe in God?"

I mean, people believe in a religion until they switch to another one. People believed in the Crusade and Inquisition until... they believed no more. People believed in classical mechanics until experiments proved otherwise. Even engineers believed shrinking the ICs until 90nm the technology exhitbits tunneling effects.

Can one be comfortable in claiming to "believed in the absolute truth" without completely justify the "truth"?

I mean life is short. And peope dedicate their lives to their religion. What if you turn around and found out that life is just a bunch of random variables?

imaimashi

人生永恆咖

westsider

Originally posted by imaimashi at 2005-8-17 01:32 PM:
人生永恆咖

how do you know? because of the Bible said so.
why do you believe in the Bible? because God is real.
why do you believe in God? because what the Bible said is true.
why do you believe in the Bible? because God is real.
why do you believe in God? because what the Bible said is true.
.
.
.
and there's no better justification?

imaimashi

why i believe god?since i have tried his presence
why i believe god?i believe bible
why i believe bible?something that is truth,and futher proving make me believe bible description of god is truth
not circular

westsider

Originally posted by imaimashi at 2005-8-17 03:22 PM:
why i believe god?since i have tried his presence
why i believe god?i believe bible
why i believe bible?something that is truth,and futher proving make me believe bible description of god is truth
not circular

I am ASKING why is the Bible absolutely true? Don't just tell me that it is true.

imaimashi

not absolutely
but it is quite believable.
believe or not just u choose!
if u ask why
i can only said,Noah,jesus,some prediction,so i think it is believable

westsider

Originally posted by imaimashi at 2005-8-17 03:37 PM:
not absolutely
but it is quite believable.
believe or not just u choose!
if u ask why
i can only said,Noah,jesus,some prediction,so i think it is believable

I'm not gonna make a choice between beliving or not beliving, I'm not gonna make a decision until I am convinced either way.

So what you saying is, the Bible is "quite believable".

And you 100% believe that this "quite belivable" Bible is "absolutely true"?

westsider

So, the best answer to the above questions is: faith?!

So I need to
1) "Experience God."
2) somehow make the connection between that experience and the Christian God
3) somehow make the connection between the Christian God and the complete validity of the Bible

is this actually what you guys did?

snowbal

Westsider,

You concerns are very legitimate. I am sure many people has the same questions and many Christians have the same questions in the minds. I did too....  What happpen if there is no GOD, then what I believe all though my life were stupid..... As of today, there are no science or philosphy that can prove or disprove GOD's existence.

Let me tell you what my believe are base on :

1) If the whole world and universe are a sequence of random variables... if you look form the probability point of view, it will be a number like 2to the power of more than 30. A very very very small chance.
It would take even a bigger faith to believe this theory than believe the world was created by GOD.

2) Arguing BIBLE is absolute truth or "99.99 truth" ( I have to clarify that I mean 99.99% truth is the translation) is somewhat waste of time, because if you do not believe the BIBLE is the record that was recording history of man and the relationshiip between GOD and man. Then there is no point of going forward. For myself, the more I read the BIBLE, the more I found out how GOD intervene man's life through out human's history. The Bible did not only say how great of successful when those man follow GOD. Instead, it shows how weak human are, LOOK at Solomon, David, Jacob, most of them were so called great person in the BIBLE.. Look at what they have done in their whole life. The Bible did not hide their short fall. Instead it kept on stating human's shortfall.
If you can read the Bible with an open mind and look at it from a more historic and human sense ( Like reading a novel). You will find it very intersting.




3) I always think, if there is no GOD, then what are we doing on earth, why do we have to do what we ae doing now?  Life is so short? Why don't I enjoy my life while I can? Why do I have to be a god man? WHy do I have to abide all the rules set by human, both moral and legal rules? I should enjoy myself with my maximum ability.
It does not matter you have religious believeor not, but you have to admitt everyone has a moral standard...  Have you wonder why? WHy don't we just do whatever we like? If you see a girl you like on the street, why don't you just have sex with her on the street? Why didn't you just pee on the street when the nature call? WHy did we all feel shame when we did something stupid?
Why did we have conscience and not other living creature?

4) Believe in GOD, like a sounds, it is a believe, believe involve faith, something that cannot be caluclate or proof. However, it does involve experience. I firmly believe if anyone really want to experience GOD, he/she can and will. But man are too busy in other things, making a lving, having a better living, a lot of other things to chase, and not enough time...... And the main reason is, man wants to be their own god, we are all afraid if we let God intervene our life, there will be a lot of things that we can not do......... What happen if we slack off at work, or got drunk... and many many other things....... there will be a lot of rules that will bound us from enjoying our life......

I can tell you this, I felt the same too before...... but more I know theGOD we believe and His plan, the less concern and worries I have.... because  when you really read the BIBLE, GOD said it very clear, HE wants us all to haveJOY , not just after our earthly life, but NOW. BIBLE is not a book of laws, but rather a book of resource to find JOY and resource to live.

how do you know? because of the Bible said so.
why do you believe in the Bible? because God is real.
why do you believe in God? because what the Bible said is true.
why do you believe in the Bible? because God is real.
why do you believe in God? because what the Bible said is true.

What your argument here is not logical......

Do you believe in History of man? Do you believe the persons that write the history were telling the truth? Do you believe the existence of ROman Empire? Greek culture? Chinese? Indian? Were all those people that record their history are telling the truth?

In today's world, sometimes, we can't even believe what we see...... so in whatever way, everything involves a certain degree of faith......

In the BIBLE case, I believe everything that record in there is Truth. 100% truth. then is every word that we read really means literally, somehow, I have some reserve.......

For example,
1) Jesus said, forgive your enemy 70 of 7 times, so in another word, should we start revenge after that...  or is it a way of saying forgive those who mistread you...

2) Jesus always mention fig tree, is the fig tree a very special tree or is it just because fig tree is very common in middle east

3) David said in Psalm, " Hear my prayer, O LOrd; ... Do not hide your face from me... Turn your ear to me..."  DID David really see GOD turn his fac from him and cover HIS ears when David prayed? or is it a way of how David express when he prayed?

There are many many example .....   

Make it short, if you read the Bible with a critical view and not even try to have a objective mind.. than the BIBLE means nothing to yu but just anoother book..... but if you have a open mind and willing to see whether the Word in the BIBLE is powerful or not, then I am sure you wll find amazing result......


ALL the best.............

Gretzky

snowbal and westsider pals,

The oldest manuscript we can get our hands on is in Russia, in St. Petersberg. Combining with Arabic, Dead Sea scroll and other scripts...the Old Testament translation (in its original language, of course) is about 95% 'accurate'. There are 5% of the the translation that we can not confirm their absolute meaning. Linguists have tried but the Hebrew language (the ancient one, not the one you use in Israel today) is one we build from the pronounciation of the words...so uncertainities are common in such languages.

The New Testament is even more 'accurate'. The original copies (noticed copies, not the original writing) we have are even more precise than the ones we have for most classical greek manuscript. The 'accuracy' is about 99.8%.

Of course you would wonder what the 'missing' 0.2% and 5% are...let me tell you rougly what they are...they are mostly puncuations, tenses, definitions, numbers...but none of them have direct relationships with the essential part of the Christian faith (i.e. God's character, sin and the gospel).

Do I believe in the bible as a book of scripture? No. I only believe in what God has to say to me. He can speak to me via the bible, people, or anything else. While the scripture is a good source of understanding the Christian God, it doesn't mean God only speak thru the bible.

Experience of God is not a something we think of...like the lighting bolt or some sort of miracles...spirituality is ordinary...not necessary mystical....

I don't want to start another war here...if you are interested to keep in contact w/ me...you can get brightlee (the Sports board moderator) to get my msn or email.

Cheers,
Gretzky