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原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 05:56 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
9 F- ?; D  W, x+ [Why bank will sell 借據給第三者???; F( S: ^1 l) T' |* ?
I was so confused.....
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講到尾都係賺錢
! {9 c* X0 _; `! l( Z- p6 @so銀行可以不斷放款5 N0 y. W: d+ {! Y7 y* W
美國的房貸問題散佈到全世界$ E5 o& U# t( H2 Z* x
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mortgage loan
# |* J8 V. ?" `8 i/ i( d' U>conduit6 p+ I  K: `% b# H
>RMBS(Residential Mortgage Backed Securities)% k/ U- v+ _& I0 X
>arranger* }$ T) Z) k# m. {; T2 Z
>CDO(Collateralized Debt Obligation)5 \3 k3 I! ~8 i5 e7 l
最後去到投資者
i thought it is the reason of rate of return.: ]; Z! Q' B  j% L/ X
CDs could have different ratings, AAA -> F,
8 W5 F6 R/ k& n  C# n+ i* K8 F% `more risky ones would have higher premium (interest rate) as a compensation for an investment.0 c- x& L  E  s5 `; u6 `8 M+ d
main reason why ppl buy those risky CDs is because the rate of return exceeds their internal rate of return,# B  C+ q! y2 H) J7 P$ ^, S
in other words, the interest rate of that investment > their required interest rate, therefore they invest in those securities./ [0 i" Z: H5 f
Also, fund managers would include risky assets in their portfolio for different purposes, eg efficiency.
7 u; A: E$ g  a! g  ?. {& H  k+ tsimilar to bonds, CDs trading in the secondary market have different value at different times,% D& J' n1 u# T, f, a/ l- f
normally the value is calculated by adding it's principle and interest.
8 g7 I- I; E# ^% S% P9 E' Aeg. the value of the mortgage+the interests to be recieved in the future.
8 ]6 c1 n7 c* q: @banks who sell the CDs, could enjoy a few benefits like, the present value of cash and passing the risk of holding a debt to another party.
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im not quite sure if the multiplier effect does really matter in this case.& [" T7 l9 D+ f( W1 X2 Q
in stock market, it's the demand and supply pushing the price up/downwards.2 j+ g& B  }9 z' F9 \" K/ c
For eg, A bought 10000 shares @10$ ; B sells 20000 shares to C @ $12,
: P8 G$ `' @9 AA's shares would suddenly increase to $120000 from $100000 which does not invlove any $ transaction.
  ~4 D/ _1 o0 o7 s8 q- q7 b- AThe capital loss that ppl suffer nowadays, i believe, most of them does not really suffer a real $ lost yet as long as they dont sell their securities.
2 e7 m5 J% a* f) p: w& Pbut the value of their assets did really drop significantly.$ l* B$ F& L, b+ ?9 J
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[ 本帖最後由 Kev 於 2008-10-8 07:26 PM 編輯 ]
原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 04:09 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif# L4 {8 E. N3 E+ r
Refer to last example,7 N( b) A; U; A  e# m  f
that means bank A have no money because we borrow 10 dollars from bank A & Z3 v- f- ]: r; k
Because bank A doesnt have enough cash on hand ( A4 x% D' z# M! Q8 I8 u. ?& S
therefore bank A need to be bankrrupt ??? Am I right ?? ...
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( I8 G  s. S4 C& J9 w! KA->B->C->D->E9 G5 G3 L# B2 S8 `" u2 s' i3 {2 c
so does it mean if E failed to pay D, ) R' }- H3 X# i: I6 w3 M" i
all the B,C,D,E have to go bankrupt?
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3 p- T4 p1 D. r* G4 b- v( r6 L& hthe multiplier just tell how much money created in a whole economy,
1 C: O& e+ [' ^1 C( n  H  s+ Yin this case it doesnt really matter how much money is created,
2 H  c5 x' E' Q4 N; \# ^( x* X1 Dit's the problem of the debt itself.5 P# e  m% {/ {' y5 H, ]
the debt(securities) is bad, faulty, that harmed the whole system.
原帖由 kerr12ca 於 2008-10-8 02:44 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
: f1 d8 _5 k2 G3 E小弟一直都唔明...
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全世界都蝕錢,咁邊個賺緊錢呢?; |' i' B3 |) b1 G% U

% [' ~2 f8 {: ~+ x. V無可能淨係有人蝕錢無人賺架嘛...: ]6 f( q& V6 B* V3 _4 ]
# o! m* p) K: a; x/ N+ v* r
敬請各師兄解答  r5 D7 Y* H+ \" }

2 X: C% w3 K# S! ~- hThanks
1 F0 G, e, ?6 Q8 [8 t& V# i: i1 s那些根本係 紙上財富  / G# U: E( L) d" {9 F' L
各式各樣的證券被炒到上天 你一樣唔賣那筆錢永遠都不是真的存在
with regards to the current crisis, Chain of fools does a reasonable job of explaining what happened with a nice graphic
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4 k5 o/ l. G3 k0 ~, k/ Qhttp://www.thedeal.com/newsweekly/images/100608_NWleverageFloChrt.gif
其實個D錢係你可以當係虛擬資產
/ ^( `5 [8 b4 j4 Z, o當經濟好,投資銀行相信會賺錢, 物價既估值相對較高" i8 f. i7 d8 [! ~- @7 w; @! L) j
於是投資銀行就去搵銀行抵押借錢投資, 打個比喻1蚊既野借10蚊
% X9 X, o9 s) m) C- U9 `個件物價係市場好既時候升, 例如15%先算,變左12蚊啦5 u+ S% x4 B. l
扣番利息當10里, 咁公司都可以賺左11.5-10(1.1)=0.5蚊," [2 V7 r) X1 F8 U; h  d' L
計番回報率就已經係50%,所以可以好好賺1 h1 N+ x3 z& z! N! l# v
前提係銀行之間要互相信任先可以咁樣借法2 Y8 w# `( B; B& H8 _( i' z, K
同埋個市場既前境要係好先得2 G7 a% h6 {; j( P
但當經濟一差,公司估值趺了,物價不升反趺
* R/ X  G. Q$ e2 \例如剛才說10蚊的, 趺到得番9蚊,
1 E+ C- A% F; i- C2 B* }( P咁投資銀行一下子就要還11蚊, 一來一回變左虧200%8 D4 b& B" \5 s' a  f$ r0 s( _
所以你就會覺得D錢好似蒸發哂咁
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0 N( C; b. _4 ?6 k4 d$ c你都可以當標野咁諗, 個樣野多人可以狂升值,
+ o. b& E# y, U+ r- a+ ^但當冇人要既時候一蚊都唔值...中間D錢其實真係冇人話賺左~
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢,
( K6 V8 {( A# u: l8 M: x. X淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
  r0 r- P0 s& i呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行
, h( l% `& a( A/ S咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊?
原帖由 kuru 於 2008-10-12 05:08 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif: J) \; |- S; S( M2 _8 g* i
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢, ' `6 o( b" p7 ^5 T; l! o
淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
1 p5 |/ S, o# I  m9 L呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行
6 V% _# u1 }$ [  O+ P咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊? ...
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正係咁樣$ D& }( T9 @/ A; S/ K3 O
其實, 以個人立場去睇, 美國好多市民都唔怕銀行/財務/投資公司結業7 _. k9 F, T8 L* V: m, v
分分鐘佢地唔使還錢) R) b  z, s+ x- }! C/ D

1 |& [  k! i7 D再講, 美國人先洗未來錢應該係世界第一, 唔知點解無錢都可以買咁車買樓,
8 Y3 r+ ]7 r3 r2 \連國家都係問人借, 不停發債券, 印鈔票- D; k% g/ w: p8 ^3 j( U( X
一個國家好少出口, 而又大量入口 ,反映到佢唔多生產. j% V) N) w8 E
編編唔生產又使用物品使用得最多, 美國就係咁既情況
咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???
原帖由 Jk 於 2008-10-22 02:15 AM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
. ^8 p- [4 ~1 X$ K5 {咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???
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& O: C3 L- Y7 G" p3 U其實係...
2 I0 h- _: Q$ _. A7 l6 J因為以前未生產, 先消費4 v1 l1 _7 G4 X
而家就要多生產, 少消費
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