[4/21加分題] 討論: 大家點樣睇天份同努力?

crap

好多人會恃住有天份而唔太努力3 S. E+ x" Z0 @% z( h' e8 ~8 h
又有好多人因為無天份而將勤補拙
% a9 j* R" z+ r
& K9 V8 A" c5 Z3 r2 \$ o大家覺得:- P9 q/ Q- _( F
只要有天份就唔需要努力?          還是. X3 R; S2 q( t# N( \
只要肯努力就唔需要天份?4 V' [- i6 P* m+ J2 V

# H2 t+ e6 E, G( m4 [8 V) R9 |( O  G" B( Z( p& |
希望大家討論下, 分享下:. g1 A9 l  |4 R7 O
你覺得邊樣重要?; t& w) d8 V1 \3 `' U
自己屬於靠天份/靠努力既人,
+ g0 M9 H* |, \/ ?, H! {8 d) _7 \覺得響邊d事上面要天份, 邊d事上面要努力?
8 Y+ K0 o# R! j. h有無成功/失敗既例子?
+ T/ \! f* E+ Y, ~5 D2 c5 y有無試過有天份做一樣野而又努力? 成果如何?0 d, i# R5 |: r! W& B/ Y: {

: k4 h! C+ h1 d4 Q: {: e8 o8 F( E; H( W/ i5 G9 a8 S- ^
4 ?3 p# K3 }5 j, i3 M! j
希望大家俾心機答; `3 q' p3 [" z! R
我諗會幾有分加
9 X7 o" `- k5 t. T& M& H同埋有時唔洗下下都為分嫁, 一齊傾下會學到野
5 U7 c# O% ]" |' s5 B- }& M2 h+ c( K' Z/ h/ s

2 T% C' V$ K! h# c/ P/ f& Y( ^5 D*大家記住唔好吵架呀
, G  J# v( l; D+ N: p6 T% j! ]/ i/ L
[ Last edited by 樂壇渣Fit人 on 2005-4-23 at 01:33 PM ]

crap

Originally posted by srfqt1 at 2005-4-21 04:00 PM:
1 ^$ X2 `! [6 c當然係天份重要啦,我覺得天份同努力的重要性差不多7:3 啦$ p( p9 R& d$ _
或者我鍾意睇SPORT GAMES啦,你睇O下入面D球星
1 ~  s; g/ S$ {8 C3 p, B+ c個個都一定係天才橫溢,但是就基本上冇一個係無天份而可以將勤補拙. X2 V. C4 u( {" q
就好像讀書咁,叻的人半個鐘就溫晒書,唔叻的人就半日都溫唔晒書8 a1 [  `4 U# v1 [) y7 Q
冇天份而靠將勤補拙的,最多只係唔差,但肯定冇機會再上一層
; Y1 t. g! o  h6 ]) a有天份而唔太努力,就肯定已經係唔差先,仲有機會再上一層

6 ^3 H5 B) W" q
. S  }: S2 ?' L9 m6 S# R! J/ ?& V
用運動是很好的例子! d' b; P5 s+ r1 ~6 g- Q
因運動的確好著重天份, 但大家其實亦很喜歡工兵型球員, Keane, Gattuso, Makelele, etc.
+ k# F. {  o6 Q4 o  s他們沒有太細膩的腳法, 身價腳可與其他星級球員看齊,
+ |: S# Z  o2 R* D/ @# |8 O同時亦有很多天份型球員從不努力, 肥朗是好例子, 大家因他的天份而愛上他, 亦因他懶而開始討厭他... @/ r" B+ N2 L% ^, Y

7 B4 E0 _# X% q% k8 R而讀書, 叻的定義太廣, 我相信無人可以科科都叻, 有d科都要努力
: K9 S" w% k- b" N' x而且你看那些10A狀元語錄, 多是每天溫上7/8小時書...( ]- o$ e7 ^  U6 S+ ?* k
  F, }6 S% X) F# f1 o5 U3 V% }
這題目矛盾的地方是:/ x0 m  `% K. S  K; `5 T! n, ^# i
太多有天份的人自恃天份高而從不努力, 或選擇性地努力
8 u1 d- F: G3 F: x. J% b7 R1 Y他們大多被努力的人趕過了, 是龜兔賽跑的道理

crap

Originally posted by srfqt1 at 2005-4-21 04:38 PM:
3 M+ f. ], K' {$ K
( Y; w+ v& c" e# z3 V! t& {# w, T
: C5 w7 |3 a+ M+ n# U可能係是龜兔賽跑的道理,但是我好堅持一樣野
0 t/ R' r6 J. T% F% e1 y! c冇天份而靠將勤補拙的,肯定冇機會再上一層
% Q7 M  @* d5 _/ g" {! D有天份而唔太努力,重有機會再上一層

  C8 z' B2 d9 N7 b# H9 Q$ h. |
/ B# b5 G( q. k4 e: l0 j/ n
呢點我非常認同, . g" H# M  t: ]" \! W* v- u
但呢點又未必, 於工事上, 聰明人有天份, 自然有野心, 不少上級會選擇一個肯搏命的人, 但當然不少會選有效率的, 所以唔一定係肯定無機會再上一層, 所以唔需要無奈7 v! ?+ q, t& H" G
: k$ l1 k% F5 J4 r$ J# U
[ Last edited by crap on 2005-4-21 at 04:47 PM ]

crap

龜兔賽跑: - 天份與努力的故事
) G# @  J/ x9 y3 m- ]
* L/ s0 V. m) v8 W: I第一回合: (係人都知…) 阿兔自恃跑得快(有天份), 帶離左阿龜好多之後去玩訓覺, 結果訓醒發現被阿龜慢慢努力趕過左..
/ D3 Q9 x& z( z解釋: 有天份而不努力, 在現實世界中很容易被非常努力的人趕過 (因現實中天份的差距很少會那麼極端)
- _4 O* C2 E2 L5 ~; o$ L
0 N- y/ k) h2 v第二回合: 阿兔知驚, 無輕敵, 一開始就全力奔向終點, 贏900幾條街6 S1 b" E7 G2 Q4 {, ]; a
解釋: 只要有天份而又努力既話, 無天份既人係無得追
% {  T$ S% M3 Y0 O& L# b' ^, j$ I3 T  B' ~
第三回合: 阿龜下戰書, 阿兔同之前回合一樣, 一開始就全力狂衝, 但最後都輸左, 因為跑道要經過一條河…7 Q5 o" o+ f5 f
解釋: 天生我材必有用, 每人都有天份, 只要搵到自己比人優勝既地方, 加以發揮, 咁就仍然有勝出既機會:cool:2 n( @1 p7 ]+ s5 |) X- d
+ h) `+ }5 c7 H( g; @2 v- @# c1 j, \
/ l4 z6 |6 v0 Y! |
* i6 k$ I( f, t( v5 `, v
節錄自我Organisational Behaviour 講師
; \. N" O" Y7 a3 t. f- j5 ]2 g" f1 g& B: j
[ Last edited by crap on 2005-4-24 at 01:20 AM ]

crap

Originally posted by singdotcom at 2005-4-26 02:05 AM:& ?; t/ ^$ q) s" X* b9 u) D! y
#24  ' o6 z+ _4 ?  H9 v& P
# X! G' K* a2 O" S7 \. R! w
如果你係冇天份而有努力, 你總可以安安穩穩咁生活
8 J2 F; N( U7 S如果你係有天份而冇努力, 你總會有一時風光, 但唔會長久, 真係<一剎那光輝唔代表永恆>
2 ?. ^# z) b6 S! y& U1 l5 q
& r. n# e  b$ D$ t' q4 f4 \# z8 m我冇乜野心, 我情願要努力. (死前知道自己努力過, 總算死而無恨)( g3 f- M8 q! b

* [8 e' k3 T+ T/ T4 Y+ Eps. 其實 "努力" 係唔係天份之一種? 真係唔係咁多人可以努力

- H- l0 r" |3 Z1 @0 r( L& H$ c! x. W, n! Y; u! }# M8 y0 `2 B
This is a good point bro.
9 y* S7 G5 k  m6 e$ u; G3 M我覺得每人都有'努力'既能耐, 而且人人都可以好努力做一樣野, 視乎佢喜好, 有人可以一個月唔溫書, 但不停玩online game努力升級, 所以我覺得努力唔太算係一種天份3 A/ H5 v1 V+ Y1 [! _- g" }
你點睇呀?

crap

Originally posted by jason williams at 2005-4-26 02:41 AM:
* l( q; y3 d- g/ @, w: l" M; j) j7 c3 ~9 s1 t+ w2 |2 N+ @
) R2 y; ^1 v5 v8 h
hi, from my opini ...

" U! T( V% i7 ]1 z% B: z
7 X$ U) ]5 D+ k" x  ?) qhaha, i got your point there , Q" `* D" z' [# g
my view of hard working is simialar to yours... 8 r3 H# O, s5 p) L8 I, v
someone works very hard to achieve sthg,
# x- J# w6 Z1 d' C1 L" j4 H5 gi didn't actually mean someone play hard, but i would say if he did work hard in order to increase his level in the game by giving up sleeping time, dates, etc....5 k) T3 H% }4 ~
i'd say he's hardworking, does it make sense to you?
$ O8 h) F7 n. x  s1 b
( _5 v- V! }! n! V  D- Ganyway, it's good talking to you White Choc.

crap

Originally posted by jason williams at 2005-4-26 03:00 AM:$ F" r4 {6 F; L

7 g( j5 L: Q) E1 T% G- Z! F
1 u5 k% [4 Z7 K7 c) T9 E" Yyes, i get yr poi ...

7 N' m# t: x+ u2 E: a: w
% Q6 [6 d* q: [3 Fum...
6 y" |+ U5 F: B( o: U1 Ypsycho is hard~.~
0 H! K2 A7 q4 f4 S. \haha, anyway, i can see your points, especialy "hard working can be trained by hard working" the idea is fresh to me
( s9 P) V8 U  P# U% k" t# ]i'll try to think about it more deeply later on
; T! f8 ^5 Z9 A1 @+ c
2 S8 `8 ?$ ~. O) B2 [$ vgood to chat with u, more of this kind of topics will come, see you there~

crap

Originally posted by singdotcom at 2005-4-26 01:57 PM:4 D% B! P1 r2 Y$ Z! @; F

* R* K" u* Y1 x( p6 X. K3 x
) n* Q8 h) n, K: I多謝哂. 在我的定義中, &quo ...

8 C( z  @3 d3 d) m  G* u
# ^& a" K7 y6 s- {2 a9 }$ \! Q! r
hahhaa, 不用客氣% F% v/ V/ p9 L% w# x
0 P6 O7 f% ]+ |. i9 K2 ~
我明白你的觀點, 在小弟的定義中, 如果一個人平時不努力, 但遇到喜歡做的事會努力做, 那也算是努力了 : d2 T4 F% l9 `9 @
以追女仔為例, 一個平日多懶的人, 也會出力追女孩子吧, 那也算是努力呀: c/ v8 H  G4 [

8 {7 T* v4 z+ x) K- Q哈哈, 有少少離題了, 不過最重要大家傾得開心

crap

Originally posted by singdotcom at 2005-4-27 01:53 AM:
1 w2 T8 q# C# T7 W* q( Q" |1 a+ f3 k! L. U2 x. a& Y
哈哈, 做左咁多年人, 我一直都冇咩用腦做人. 你出呢d topic, 正好比我"努力"訓練吓d思考能力, 組織能力同表達能力.
, o+ q; K$ b% {
+ s+ z6 E/ H0 F" K: j' m哈哈, 我都有少少離題了

3 s/ i4 @& D5 K1 e' L5 K% Y( p- P; F/ F
哈哈, 你努力時可能會發現了自己的天份呢8 L1 S$ n, s$ K2 k& s) O" Z

3 |2 w. c8 p- [7 [# I- @3 y1 N同類既topic會盡量日日都出, 希望大家可以一齊用下腦袋啦& l7 L2 O$ s& m8 y1 g  H

$ f! [0 Q7 l* z, G0 @, |8 [你有無試下答大義滅親果條呀, 都幾好玩嫁   <----- 哈哈, 剛發現你答了, 多謝支持  K) Z1 y! ^; X% Y9 K4 J
$ A: y! I6 m& \
[ Last edited by crap on 2005-4-27 at 02:39 AM ]

crap

Originally posted by jason williams at 2005-4-27 01:54 AM:" D" N, k$ R% T& f4 J& X3 }

2 X9 n2 d$ K8 m- E! I4 D- n" P8 L7 [. q: E3 T7 `& R
haha.......ho ar, nice to chat with u2, especially this kind of topic

5 k; f, F, D( b0 L; ~) e
7 |+ a/ e8 @7 `9 t3 _( [9 z1 V6 Chaha, me 2, similar type of brain teasing topics will be made everyday (ideally)# F; u' _& s$ f2 q6 ^
pls enjoy/ b/ ~7 `7 F! `

  j: g% m; a4 e% l; H. d: oagain, have u tried the 大義滅親 one? that's quite funny IMO
/ ?  J2 Z1 H- E' k' M5 R/ CGive it a go if u have time