0000001

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 05:56 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
. ?- {" S# o7 \# [# _& e5 W  H4 p% BWhy bank will sell 借據給第三者???, w: z+ I6 K& l% Q" Q
I was so confused.....

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) _; N; [! }' s' W$ C$ d講到尾都係賺錢' ~6 X$ ^3 n: ^/ m( q6 K
so銀行可以不斷放款$ x3 y9 v9 r! u$ Q
美國的房貸問題散佈到全世界( N) I$ w; J8 q- e: e$ V

6 G6 u' e2 L! w% A+ Zmortgage loan
; F1 _  P  h( [4 F. f1 X4 B  ~>conduit
7 i1 X1 V/ f, W8 V  [>RMBS(Residential Mortgage Backed Securities)' X* y2 H+ R5 o) m: [( q, ^
>arranger' n! ]# U. x% x5 h$ m
>CDO(Collateralized Debt Obligation)
  ^% h. z& s6 G% u0 U最後去到投資者

Kev

i thought it is the reason of rate of return.
* ?0 w+ z3 r6 N, b; I: x) zCDs could have different ratings, AAA -> F,2 D) T) t0 Q# U1 {: w% m) e* q" J
more risky ones would have higher premium (interest rate) as a compensation for an investment.7 v9 s0 ^4 H8 i
main reason why ppl buy those risky CDs is because the rate of return exceeds their internal rate of return,
% e/ }$ ]. v& R3 V7 b$ q) _+ \1 @" \8 Y4 ^in other words, the interest rate of that investment > their required interest rate, therefore they invest in those securities.
$ W% |, C2 |0 v' D; {Also, fund managers would include risky assets in their portfolio for different purposes, eg efficiency.
0 {# P. E; K5 b6 r5 U) Xsimilar to bonds, CDs trading in the secondary market have different value at different times,  R; U4 W4 r6 j9 Z3 }6 N
normally the value is calculated by adding it's principle and interest.
3 J" ^7 p: D: g, x4 h* |eg. the value of the mortgage+the interests to be recieved in the future.
( U: ?- \2 Q! \' Ibanks who sell the CDs, could enjoy a few benefits like, the present value of cash and passing the risk of holding a debt to another party.
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/ M5 R' H. p9 s: M6 Y9 fim not quite sure if the multiplier effect does really matter in this case.7 y. M9 `1 i5 t; {  l" K
in stock market, it's the demand and supply pushing the price up/downwards.0 ^. Q( \4 x" W2 e6 F( c1 M+ _
For eg, A bought 10000 shares @10$ ; B sells 20000 shares to C @ $12,
& B( m* d6 y5 X0 m5 C1 A7 [A's shares would suddenly increase to $120000 from $100000 which does not invlove any $ transaction.
' n  v5 F9 e9 E' mThe capital loss that ppl suffer nowadays, i believe, most of them does not really suffer a real $ lost yet as long as they dont sell their securities.
$ k8 z' E* O0 q5 L" u7 Y6 {but the value of their assets did really drop significantly.2 y! K" V% \/ z; G! n) X- ^

2 d4 ]+ W, Q( H% }/ R  q[ 本帖最後由 Kev 於 2008-10-8 07:26 PM 編輯 ]

Kev

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 04:09 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
- R* ]: h2 \* f* W7 X6 lRefer to last example,7 B4 Q- O; O1 B" ~  H0 j9 k, D
that means bank A have no money because we borrow 10 dollars from bank A : D2 N6 X; `' }! m
Because bank A doesnt have enough cash on hand 8 b5 v& u+ S1 S7 u7 Y- p, a4 F
therefore bank A need to be bankrrupt ??? Am I right ?? ...

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A->B->C->D->E
* S0 E! v7 c: c7 ~5 s8 kso does it mean if E failed to pay D,
- p* B# f( B5 B  I, kall the B,C,D,E have to go bankrupt?
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5 @  ?* B1 j" ^6 U6 t& O: X) Z7 ^/ x% P0 P
the multiplier just tell how much money created in a whole economy,
: V# H9 F$ ~9 I! cin this case it doesnt really matter how much money is created, " v9 K4 F' s- u& h8 ~. o/ Q& I
it's the problem of the debt itself.
% d- X1 B  K/ i; ]' Fthe debt(securities) is bad, faulty, that harmed the whole system.

benny1219

原帖由 kerr12ca 於 2008-10-8 02:44 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif) W$ r) I8 ^9 b, l
小弟一直都唔明...
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  _8 C% Y. l/ Z+ W& K5 ^全世界都蝕錢，咁邊個賺緊錢呢?5 [1 E) e; u; ~

" d; T: @4 v5 V& z$ g1 A$ f% E無可能淨係有人蝕錢無人賺架嘛...
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# r' A# x1 P* u& u敬請各師兄解答# N6 Q$ I) C+ v9 v

) r6 F& e6 P7 A6 IThanks

! {: G) ~- x3 w: F1 T$ U# B0 Y
那些根本係 紙上財富  
$ }8 l1 B, G6 f) a各式各樣的證券被炒到上天 你一樣唔賣那筆錢永遠都不是真的存在

qulapo

with regards to the current crisis, Chain of fools does a reasonable job of explaining what happened with a nice graphic$ k: w( x7 e8 K$ v
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http://www.thedeal.com/newsweekly/images/100608_NWleverageFloChrt.gif

fderek

其實個D錢係你可以當係虛擬資產, h, |! B! B# j4 q
當經濟好,投資銀行相信會賺錢, 物價既估值相對較高0 p$ ?5 l0 \$ s/ s* c
於是投資銀行就去搵銀行抵押借錢投資, 打個比喻1蚊既野借10蚊7 Q9 Y/ Y9 r# Z+ b
個件物價係市場好既時候升, 例如15%先算,變左12蚊啦- b) A( A- ]/ I$ a$ |; k
扣番利息當10里, 咁公司都可以賺左11.5-10(1.1)=0.5蚊,$ x9 u& D) z6 E+ h! Z
計番回報率就已經係50%,所以可以好好賺
3 _( U0 B6 a6 }# I1 r前提係銀行之間要互相信任先可以咁樣借法
1 g7 k8 N/ I& q9 i! |$ ]同埋個市場既前境要係好先得
. q# \! ~* D: o/ J但當經濟一差,公司估值趺了,物價不升反趺
: O. T4 n8 W' Y例如剛才說10蚊的, 趺到得番9蚊, * Z5 T0 _1 ]7 i. p/ E
咁投資銀行一下子就要還11蚊, 一來一回變左虧200%! _, U  D6 A( k. L; J
所以你就會覺得D錢好似蒸發哂咁
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* v5 l5 i( k6 L1 b# |( R$ H* U4 J! k你都可以當標野咁諗, 個樣野多人可以狂升值,
% p& j9 Z6 y- V7 T- G; t. m& t但當冇人要既時候一蚊都唔值...中間D錢其實真係冇人話賺左~

kuru

唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢,
/ S9 l+ I  A: U' d3 D1 ^淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒, - U4 d: [0 u& e1 r7 F/ J
呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行& ~% A; o: \" m
咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊?

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 kuru 於 2008-10-12 05:08 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif  f- w# O2 ]" P" [% A  t
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢, ; T: F- C6 Z) ?; ^$ r" K, J
淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
& O7 B/ Q, k! }4 S$ F# M; i呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行
2 f/ }1 u) C8 e0 o  P* Z咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊? ...

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正係咁樣, o& T5 Y3 B* P
其實, 以個人立場去睇, 美國好多市民都唔怕銀行/財務/投資公司結業1 `0 M' e* N1 A8 s. Z
分分鐘佢地唔使還錢: r: r6 A* Y# c2 m2 p. S, n- O/ h& I

# a# p5 @  U  ~7 Z/ i( f再講, 美國人先洗未來錢應該係世界第一, 唔知點解無錢都可以買咁車買樓,5 R, G/ o% y' u+ H9 I
連國家都係問人借, 不停發債券, 印鈔票! W$ L& w9 V6 |+ J8 H+ _0 V
一個國家好少出口, 而又大量入口 ,反映到佢唔多生產
0 O/ j4 e% q( \2 L  \編編唔生產又使用物品使用得最多, 美國就係咁既情況

Jk

咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 Jk 於 2008-10-22 02:15 AM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
1 c! D) j9 ~; }* S. s9 Q咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

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, _5 c( c# p0 U! r# m& ^其實係...
7 ~1 v  ?6 g1 P: P) Q, D因為以前未生產, 先消費, [' N/ O6 o* D! L  e1 A7 w
而家就要多生產, 少消費