0000001

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 05:56 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
# q  Z# K% b3 i9 t* TWhy bank will sell 借據給第三者???
: r& ]1 p4 \4 Z) }( SI was so confused.....

! A# U0 r, }" e) D2 X# v3 }/ Y+ j8 s# k7 T# ]
講到尾都係賺錢% m8 `$ x$ `* ^# V+ c* I4 |0 B" ?% {6 N
so銀行可以不斷放款
$ I- v+ t& A  R8 X; W( e" l美國的房貸問題散佈到全世界' U2 H$ \* u, q

0 X$ E! \' B8 I: n2 F# a" w9 T2 `mortgage loan
9 x5 l' L+ n1 M, I/ b+ k/ N, a4 i2 W: U>conduit9 D/ Y& {$ d) P
>RMBS(Residential Mortgage Backed Securities)
5 g1 z6 e6 e' I- n' Z7 o# d>arranger
# q0 f" k0 M# h% B: |+ g5 L: d  ]4 t>CDO(Collateralized Debt Obligation)* b2 R$ c( a/ F" C9 b* _4 S
最後去到投資者

Kev

i thought it is the reason of rate of return.2 I# `  j: Z+ M  i4 \' ~
CDs could have different ratings, AAA -> F,
4 P* ]- r, \3 z. n2 gmore risky ones would have higher premium (interest rate) as a compensation for an investment.
( W& [' `6 j. Q5 w' Imain reason why ppl buy those risky CDs is because the rate of return exceeds their internal rate of return,9 a  D6 ]4 C2 r; `
in other words, the interest rate of that investment > their required interest rate, therefore they invest in those securities.
/ R; T! }8 R& S. Z; B% I6 @0 F% c/ [Also, fund managers would include risky assets in their portfolio for different purposes, eg efficiency.
% U# S4 d( l" D9 @( l7 v+ a6 Q# _similar to bonds, CDs trading in the secondary market have different value at different times,
$ D6 n! f0 z9 c, W& {. R5 I$ m& pnormally the value is calculated by adding it's principle and interest. ( p8 H5 p9 {  y; ]% w# r
eg. the value of the mortgage+the interests to be recieved in the future. + t. U" ~' ~8 u1 q! h# S
banks who sell the CDs, could enjoy a few benefits like, the present value of cash and passing the risk of holding a debt to another party.- {& L$ h: O1 B1 k; P0 n

6 L# b$ K+ w# b: I4 o1 Vim not quite sure if the multiplier effect does really matter in this case.9 p) L+ y8 j; Z/ l& e
in stock market, it's the demand and supply pushing the price up/downwards.
$ H0 D# n) h' p  ^For eg, A bought 10000 shares @10$ ; B sells 20000 shares to C @ $12,* C( Z0 |; _3 p8 H$ L5 D  ~9 ]
A's shares would suddenly increase to $120000 from $100000 which does not invlove any $ transaction.
0 [1 q- e& E6 F) J$ MThe capital loss that ppl suffer nowadays, i believe, most of them does not really suffer a real $ lost yet as long as they dont sell their securities. ( M7 H! A& e/ L3 }7 s2 \
but the value of their assets did really drop significantly.0 a8 {" F* U, ~5 d

7 @* E4 y2 f5 h+ z- Y3 E[ 本帖最後由 Kev 於 2008-10-8 07:26 PM 編輯 ]

Kev

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 04:09 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
! D# A8 i0 N% k4 b5 rRefer to last example,; P' j8 r1 {8 K7 r! P2 t2 W! B9 _
that means bank A have no money because we borrow 10 dollars from bank A 9 |7 _4 `. U1 N6 m! [2 R
Because bank A doesnt have enough cash on hand
3 P4 T8 J5 c5 r; ~& b; [" itherefore bank A need to be bankrrupt ??? Am I right ?? ...

. Z% }0 _8 u$ U% b! ]
" p2 R! O* ~3 J0 P# V
+ T' W" a0 d) q1 O- I6 p% Z
A->B->C->D->E
  N5 F+ C$ S( g$ n' c# I9 qso does it mean if E failed to pay D,
; w+ w: D! {; K! d! A8 |all the B,C,D,E have to go bankrupt?
  y+ x, i$ {+ L
2 |. r6 Q. {: X; M3 S- n) ]- I4 s+ p6 a5 `- a9 J7 h6 T
the multiplier just tell how much money created in a whole economy,
) G; f: [- w2 P2 b6 v! l; oin this case it doesnt really matter how much money is created,
' j( [3 a$ X# B# m( Y* j# C8 m/ Rit's the problem of the debt itself.
" I  F! v& K" kthe debt(securities) is bad, faulty, that harmed the whole system.

benny1219

原帖由 kerr12ca 於 2008-10-8 02:44 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
, L- W- ]' T# d% @9 r0 h7 Q" L  C小弟一直都唔明...
" Z2 c( N! `( v, z2 |0 L' q6 M0 G* T
% _; ~  U+ B( M! v/ F' j/ L1 |全世界都蝕錢，咁邊個賺緊錢呢?( u" M4 d9 d6 E3 y

& ^1 D; s6 ^3 j8 m- I" ]% }  b0 e無可能淨係有人蝕錢無人賺架嘛...
0 _* U" e# r  B: C1 q/ |1 N# ~4 a1 N: R% C
敬請各師兄解答9 P: ~* h4 L7 I

7 B  S* e/ x8 W4 U  ^Thanks

7 L2 E& x' J6 A) c: s$ s8 F那些根本係 紙上財富  $ s- [3 ~2 y( E' e
各式各樣的證券被炒到上天 你一樣唔賣那筆錢永遠都不是真的存在

qulapo

with regards to the current crisis, Chain of fools does a reasonable job of explaining what happened with a nice graphic  R3 Y5 A$ p, k7 |# b6 ^! c

9 z, H- g& [3 _, y2 S- S- dhttp://www.thedeal.com/newsweekly/images/100608_NWleverageFloChrt.gif

fderek

其實個D錢係你可以當係虛擬資產
4 v* P/ F7 D1 n! Y. c- A當經濟好,投資銀行相信會賺錢, 物價既估值相對較高
& ]2 K2 d% u* l/ p5 Y於是投資銀行就去搵銀行抵押借錢投資, 打個比喻1蚊既野借10蚊7 `4 b, e4 ^* b1 u+ i% }! o
個件物價係市場好既時候升, 例如15%先算,變左12蚊啦' U: i1 q, f( u0 P5 V: E# H% X
扣番利息當10里, 咁公司都可以賺左11.5-10(1.1)=0.5蚊,) f$ _2 B) Q% Z
計番回報率就已經係50%,所以可以好好賺! C8 f3 J/ [7 f0 y4 t$ x
前提係銀行之間要互相信任先可以咁樣借法/ F- R+ M1 k+ M; h' H
同埋個市場既前境要係好先得" Q; w8 Q+ h* A4 c5 ~
但當經濟一差,公司估值趺了,物價不升反趺
# g; p. d1 E! u( q- R! D例如剛才說10蚊的, 趺到得番9蚊,
% C% S4 T' z1 k; y1 f咁投資銀行一下子就要還11蚊, 一來一回變左虧200%- W! p4 c) b8 v8 N% i
所以你就會覺得D錢好似蒸發哂咁
# O0 v& v6 {6 a: W9 u( G; Q- e5 X0 {7 A. V# y; F$ s
你都可以當標野咁諗, 個樣野多人可以狂升值,
# X& G! U2 w1 n$ p2 Y; {. G0 A但當冇人要既時候一蚊都唔值...中間D錢其實真係冇人話賺左~

kuru

唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢,
  f4 G: n. P2 M& A淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒, 9 O; n. n8 P* a2 ]' [
呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行% A1 \1 M% e9 ^0 W+ X& r
咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊?

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 kuru 於 2008-10-12 05:08 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif% G7 \6 E: K) d
唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢, 2 a/ i/ g7 y% `$ b6 ^, l
淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒, & l" Y5 C6 _9 p+ u! S
呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行$ s8 F* ?. v' g) }
咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊? ...

2 h+ g1 n% m; j2 @2 q/ l& c& d
; p, L& c! Y. k* F  @: H* T/ Z* L正係咁樣8 y' F9 y* F0 `6 e) `6 A
其實, 以個人立場去睇, 美國好多市民都唔怕銀行/財務/投資公司結業5 t) N  n$ @; Z6 c. o6 U" B( i
分分鐘佢地唔使還錢
) t4 i/ m* L2 R0 @0 g' b1 q( x" N
9 l" C$ U5 R3 v: M6 P- `再講, 美國人先洗未來錢應該係世界第一, 唔知點解無錢都可以買咁車買樓,8 a- x, A5 `7 T' [
連國家都係問人借, 不停發債券, 印鈔票; C0 R0 ~" N6 z4 _" q, {' M
一個國家好少出口, 而又大量入口 ,反映到佢唔多生產
; H7 n$ Q  S4 d6 W* C# W1 s# m( g編編唔生產又使用物品使用得最多, 美國就係咁既情況

Jk

咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 Jk 於 2008-10-22 02:15 AM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif" q9 |# G7 k# n
咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

8 m$ o2 j& q! O, R: J

# ]) W1 r7 g- z5 _, g其實係...
; a  D& k; q, R5 V. B2 ^& J因為以前未生產, 先消費
; i# F# V9 F0 J/ |& [# j! w, d而家就要多生產, 少消費