0000001

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 05:56 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif5 s& O/ G  `- `" P) D. e
Why bank will sell 借據給第三者???. K9 t8 X# A& U! W* p
I was so confused.....

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講到尾都係賺錢
) h+ k& \: B0 u! Qso銀行可以不斷放款0 j* Z: j( H  O" ?2 C4 q3 ~
美國的房貸問題散佈到全世界
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mortgage loan ; m8 ]: b: t2 T; @
>conduit
& @# h' c! M! g, E7 L>RMBS(Residential Mortgage Backed Securities)" Z" W( X; \  J
>arranger
+ ]4 s5 O7 d9 R* w$ v+ j>CDO(Collateralized Debt Obligation)3 _5 ]( C6 P0 z  v
最後去到投資者

Kev

i thought it is the reason of rate of return.% ]/ |: ^; r6 _7 f* L7 j0 l- u* x
CDs could have different ratings, AAA -> F,% c# O$ c% F7 U/ I- k9 i, ^7 U
more risky ones would have higher premium (interest rate) as a compensation for an investment.- ?8 Y+ B! I$ V7 O) v# ?) w; `
main reason why ppl buy those risky CDs is because the rate of return exceeds their internal rate of return,
/ f# d, {4 P: N4 b) f# e; Zin other words, the interest rate of that investment > their required interest rate, therefore they invest in those securities.% [/ O8 C: P5 ~( P6 q4 B, X3 T3 ^( b
Also, fund managers would include risky assets in their portfolio for different purposes, eg efficiency.' z( S. q3 [. H4 l. c+ I: N: I8 e+ F
similar to bonds, CDs trading in the secondary market have different value at different times,
% V& ^! B9 `# _4 f% X8 l3 S% lnormally the value is calculated by adding it's principle and interest.
9 f6 P' f2 @+ v! ^# V! Meg. the value of the mortgage+the interests to be recieved in the future.
- F  R  t4 a) M7 Y8 v4 C) Vbanks who sell the CDs, could enjoy a few benefits like, the present value of cash and passing the risk of holding a debt to another party.1 X9 Z' F* J# p& w! g

2 R& {0 ]8 `! P& b$ q/ W" }! S7 `im not quite sure if the multiplier effect does really matter in this case.: K7 \4 T7 O9 j$ [
in stock market, it's the demand and supply pushing the price up/downwards.2 F( t6 f0 @, ~  G) X
For eg, A bought 10000 shares @10$ ; B sells 20000 shares to C @ $12,
/ d1 n( Q4 L$ jA's shares would suddenly increase to $120000 from $100000 which does not invlove any $ transaction.
7 @, K% Z8 M2 z/ y* LThe capital loss that ppl suffer nowadays, i believe, most of them does not really suffer a real $ lost yet as long as they dont sell their securities. + V, u, N* g  n9 c* I% _
but the value of their assets did really drop significantly.: T1 S$ q' i& _+ Z* b

& k2 i) [" S0 @; U. r[ 本帖最後由 Kev 於 2008-10-8 07:26 PM 編輯 ]

Kev

原帖由 balachiDavis 於 2008-10-8 04:09 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif* s5 q3 ]; e; y0 ?8 a8 v
Refer to last example,
; p0 z2 h7 K5 O* g- R8 Cthat means bank A have no money because we borrow 10 dollars from bank A 6 X2 [- }+ c' b8 [7 a( H% [
Because bank A doesnt have enough cash on hand
- a( a' g- H5 x8 c  c, xtherefore bank A need to be bankrrupt ??? Am I right ?? ...

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8 g, f# b+ H( o9 w2 ?A->B->C->D->E# F- ]9 w& P3 f; L1 e
so does it mean if E failed to pay D, 8 \( j; Y& {5 t0 g. ]
all the B,C,D,E have to go bankrupt?5 Z, c8 f1 `) j$ R7 }# ^- s" s
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the multiplier just tell how much money created in a whole economy,
# _+ h$ l% [0 j! e2 c/ E( Min this case it doesnt really matter how much money is created,
$ m5 s" f, o0 ~; ?/ w- git's the problem of the debt itself.
0 [5 @, s" E* Xthe debt(securities) is bad, faulty, that harmed the whole system.

benny1219

原帖由 kerr12ca 於 2008-10-8 02:44 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif3 L5 n1 B& |$ G( |
小弟一直都唔明...1 ?1 M1 J1 K- y7 j& a8 W

9 [! f/ ]7 x! v; r! C4 S) O全世界都蝕錢，咁邊個賺緊錢呢?
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無可能淨係有人蝕錢無人賺架嘛...: D  ^: ~% W5 B# P# G1 m  M

2 p$ z6 `- V9 r0 i# @0 g0 J7 a敬請各師兄解答1 [. T7 q% P" Y

7 A& Z. ^. L7 Z/ NThanks

# y- p. a1 N" N( P1 |那些根本係 紙上財富  . d, V; C6 f2 l% Y9 }
各式各樣的證券被炒到上天 你一樣唔賣那筆錢永遠都不是真的存在

qulapo

with regards to the current crisis, Chain of fools does a reasonable job of explaining what happened with a nice graphic
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http://www.thedeal.com/newsweekly/images/100608_NWleverageFloChrt.gif

fderek

其實個D錢係你可以當係虛擬資產
& t* e) k; k' y) ^2 a( D( {$ g+ G當經濟好,投資銀行相信會賺錢, 物價既估值相對較高
5 _. C# ~, k1 C& _7 y" Z5 l於是投資銀行就去搵銀行抵押借錢投資, 打個比喻1蚊既野借10蚊
8 u  C8 e4 F5 |+ L  r, O/ O( ?個件物價係市場好既時候升, 例如15%先算,變左12蚊啦
# g  q5 V7 e4 X& K扣番利息當10里, 咁公司都可以賺左11.5-10(1.1)=0.5蚊,
6 O! t8 s0 V# a$ @2 _  ~計番回報率就已經係50%,所以可以好好賺
1 \! ]3 A% }8 i, w7 i. J前提係銀行之間要互相信任先可以咁樣借法
  y3 }" y% n  J4 h同埋個市場既前境要係好先得# ]5 R2 [  n  b4 {" K8 f: i
但當經濟一差,公司估值趺了,物價不升反趺5 p4 {3 D  d' |/ B
例如剛才說10蚊的, 趺到得番9蚊, 6 n9 ?0 G1 n7 q1 R0 w- c# D) v. X
咁投資銀行一下子就要還11蚊, 一來一回變左虧200%
! @9 O2 h4 u* e: E  e/ U2 c4 M所以你就會覺得D錢好似蒸發哂咁  w6 w, I; [# ^1 X# o8 n; W
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你都可以當標野咁諗, 個樣野多人可以狂升值,
7 M8 J/ E: E' a$ B但當冇人要既時候一蚊都唔值...中間D錢其實真係冇人話賺左~

kuru

唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢,
6 D  u- g, j/ d$ G1 K4 x% o7 ^淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
% E0 ]. I0 T! S, |: W呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行
1 _+ e3 ?4 b- z* b咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊?

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 kuru 於 2008-10-12 05:08 PM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
( |' P0 L) H# a. ~唔係d錢蒸發, 而係比美國佬洗晒未來錢, 8 ^, v! J6 w" b% w# |; \; t! D
淨如你簽左卡, 呢刻爆卡,咁d去晒邊?咪之錢用晒,
, d9 f* Z0 c8 u呢刻樓市爆, 原本冇錢買樓既, 又係問銀行借但又唔留錢供, 既然冇錢還比銀行5 d) d# |9 U' S1 e
咁你話d錢蒸發左去邊? ...

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& [0 P0 ]% n- b* x8 T正係咁樣0 l7 c& q1 u# P
其實, 以個人立場去睇, 美國好多市民都唔怕銀行/財務/投資公司結業
3 \. z: T7 y+ [7 W分分鐘佢地唔使還錢
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再講, 美國人先洗未來錢應該係世界第一, 唔知點解無錢都可以買咁車買樓,
& r% p4 c+ X# p: l連國家都係問人借, 不停發債券, 印鈔票  W8 V# |0 e9 G) v. Z7 ?! j
一個國家好少出口, 而又大量入口 ,反映到佢唔多生產
& ?6 r) @5 y' m, m; x3 C0 e編編唔生產又使用物品使用得最多, 美國就係咁既情況

Jk

咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

fcukyoukelly

原帖由 Jk 於 2008-10-22 02:15 AM 發表 http://www.26fun.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif
: N$ R$ x3 `6 m9 x. B咁而家"爆哂煲"算唔算先至係變番"正常"???

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! I7 H2 G% U$ V) ?2 e2 A% p2 |其實係...' N/ v" p0 U( ~  |6 [
因為以前未生產, 先消費
: |/ Q  Q7 z$ p5 T4 ]+ a2 r而家就要多生產, 少消費